Noam Chomsky update II

Back in the 70s, during the PR campaign for the Chicago Rock-Against-Racism event (which I helped organize), I attempted to interview Patti Smith... which basically turned out like this interview. Just as we got introduced, we got cut off. I always wondered if it was a right-wing roadie or somebody, who did that. Well, today, I can't blame right-wing roadies, I blame Gregg Jocoy, my well-meaning consigliere, who could not refrain from fiddling with buttons and various electronic gimcracks whilst I introduced myself to Dr Noam Chomsky. Suddenly, BEEP, cut off. Shades of Patti Smith! Major panic, sweating, hot flashes, etc.

When I called the good professor back, he was unperturbed by the interruption (obviously used to dealing with clueless hippies), but it was then that I lost the recording on Free Conference Call.com. Gregg kept on fiddling with knobs, but I could tell by his grim expression that we had messed it up and done A Bad Thing. (Ah, the ever-illusive spirit of radio.)

It is notable that the interview took place not in our usual digs, the WFIS radio-station studio, but in Gregg's mother-in-law's bedroom. So we ain't exactly high-tech. After the disappointing quality of Jeff Sharlet's interview, we really wanted to do better. Gregg bought some electronic do-thangs that were supposed to solve all our auditory problems and MAKE IT BETTER.

And in trying to do better, we did worse. (sob)

So, I will not be running an interview (much less a transcript), since we didn't GET the damn thing... BUT YES I ACTUALLY TALKED TO HIM! (PS: My side of the interview recorded fine! LOL) I am going to try and recall the substance of the interview as best I can. Below is a paraphrase of our conversation, which was about 12 minutes long.

~*~

I introduced myself as a South Carolina Occupier and asked what he thought of the Occupy movement in general.

He replied, it is a tremendous thing, and goes against so much of what Americans have been taught: not to care about each other. The networks of caring and connection that have been recently established have been as important as the movement itself. The concept of Occupy has caught on like wildfire; everywhere he goes, he said, he meets Occupiers, in small towns and even during a recent visit to Australia, there were Occupiers. It is a tremendous spirit that has taken hold. (last sentence is a direct quote)

I told Dr Chomsky that we were excited about the Al Jazeera article (focusing on SC Occupiers), which made us feel important down here in South Carolina, and he said we should be proud. I also said I felt that the history of secession and Civil War here in SC (first state to secede from the Union) has made people afraid and leery of politics, even now. At the least, many "moderates" seem unduly skeptical of ideology and political involvement. Dr Chomsky said that was very interesting. YES, NOAM CHOMSKY OPINED THAT I SAID SOMETHING INTERESTING! (Now fighting back the self-aggrandizing urge to add the blurb "Interesting!"--Noam Chomsky, to the margin of this blog.)

At this point, we discussed the fact that there is still a confederate battle flag flying at our state capitol. Dr Chomsky wishes that the Martin Luther King memorials would mention the Poor People's Campaign, which actually began here in South Carolina, something I hadn't known. Northern liberals liked Martin Luther King Jr as long as he was fighting ignorant Alabama sheriffs, Chomsky said, but when he brought his battle up north and confronted northern racism, they weren't so happy to see him. And he also believes King's legacy should pointedly mention that he strongly believed in helping all of the poor; Civil Rights was only the beginning of his work.

And finally, I asked him if he thought there were specific problems with the word OCCUPY, as some progressives have said.

The world-famous linguist chuckled, and offered the very common-sense observation that you can use any word any way you like, and Occupy is a good word to start with. It is precisely because it was used in a colonialist way, that it is a good word to use now. It shows that people understand what has been going on: Occupation. And now, WE are going to do some occupying.

The word belongs to everybody, he said.

I wound up by telling him at least one SC Occupier had been inspired by him, and cited him as the reason why he had decided to join the movement. Dr Chomsky replied that we were the inspiring ones. I was thrilled!

~*~

Of course, I wasn't thrilled when I realized we didn't have the interview recorded, but figured I had at least gotten further than I did with Patti Smith.

Gregg is upset, but not so upset that he doesn't have a million more ideas for the show, innovations galore, including podcasts. He doesn't miss a beat! If it wasn't for his amazing resolve, I wouldn't even be doing any of this stuff in the first place, so I can't fuss at him. Besides, I knew it was dicey--we are still amateurs. As Gregg says: we attempted to walk before we could crawl. But you have to learn some kinda way... unfortunately, trial-and-error still seems to be the learning method of choice.

I figure my paraphrased interview is better than nothing. And it was incredibly wonderful to talk to a living legend. Tomorrow's show will feature my paraphrasing of Dr Chomsky (which I have done to the best of my ability here) and I will be having some sport with Gregg and his love of electronic thingamabobs, and why he needs to keep his feverish pre-game button-pushing to a mimimum.

(sigh)

But in all honesty, it WAS a stone gas.

Al Jazeera: The challenges of Occupying South Carolina

Al Jazeera ran an article about South Carolina Occupy!!! Woot!

How interesting that it's up to foreign journalists to understand what's going on around here. You sure can't find this kind of insightful analysis in the New York Times, or even the Greenville News.

Excerpt:

With about ten per cent of South Carolinians unemployed, economic woes might make South Carolina seem like a receptive setting for the Occupy movement - which reserves some of its harshest rhetoric for banks and corporations they deem largely responsible for income inequality.

But compared with other states, there aren't many Occupiers in South Carolina: in Charleston, the state's second-largest city, there are some 20 to 40 active participants, says Anjana Joshi, a research analyst at a Charleston law firm.

South Carolina tends to be a conservative state: its governor and all but one congressman are affiliated with the right-wing Tea Party movement. Deb Morrow of Occupy Spartanburg says dislike of President Obama is so strong in parts of the state that it's "difficult to get people to engage" with issues such as unemployment and income inequality.

Although about 75 Occupiers held a demonstration at the capitol last Saturday in Columbia - near a statue of segregationist senator Strom Thurmond - about ten times as many people had gathered on the other side of the state house earlier that day as part of an anti-abortion rally.

Laura Olson, a political science professor at Clemson University, doesn't think the Occupiers' small numbers are necessarily problematic for the movement. "The political context here makes it tough for any kind of progressive movement to get much traction. But that can be an advantage in a way too," she explained. "Even though you're not going to attract huge numbers of people, you might get folks who are more deeply committed than you otherwise might" in a more liberal state.

The many faces of Occupy

The stereotypical Occupier is often portrayed as a young, unemployed, college student. That may be one demographic - but far from the only one.

South Carolina, with its many military bases and academies, has a lot of veterans - and a disproportionate number of Occupiers seem to be veterans. Of the 11 people arrested when Occupy Charleston set up a short-lived encampment in the city's Marion Square, five were veterans, including Ramon Caraballo of Charleston.

Caraballo, who served in Iraq for 15 months during the surge, links his participation in Occupy with his military service. He says he became involved with Occupy after seeing police in Oakland fire beanbag guns and tear gas canisters at demonstrators close-range - which he says the US Army isn't allowed to do to Iraqi protesters. "We ourselves are dead wrong for what we impose in other countries - and we can't even follow those rules here," says Caraballo.

And in the seaside city of Myrtle Beach - which has a large number of senior citizens - many people active in the Occupy group there are retirees, says Brian Noyes Pulling, himself a retired social worker.

Although Occupiers in South Carolina say the reception they've gotten hasn't been overwhelmingly negative, it hasn't been altogether welcoming, either. Cliff Berardo, a driver from Columbia who's involved with Occupy, says people in the state often see participants as "dirty, filthy hippies" who "want a free ride". For example, Ronald Moulder, who's active with the Tea Party, described Occupy participants demonstrating at a Tea Party convention in Myrtle Beach as looking "like they just got out from under the bridge".

Olson believes that many South Carolinians "see the movement as sort of distant from here, as something that is going on in big cities in the North ... It feels too '60s-ish, I think, for a lot of folks".

Increasing activism

"There are whole communities of people that our local government just doesn't care about."

- Anjana Joshi of Occupy Charleston

Some Occupy groups in the state are trying to overcome the perception that they are, in the words of Occupy Spartanburg's Deb Morrow, "just standing out there and doing nothing". Every Sunday, for instance, Occupy Charleston holds a free potluck dinner in the city's low-income East Side neighbourhood. "We try to get into our actual communities and help people and fill the void that the government has left," says Joshi. "There are whole communities of people that our local government just doesn't care about."

A handful of Occupiers are becoming active in electoral politics as well. Although Occupy groups do not endorse political candidates, at least two Occupy participants are running for congress in South Carolina, both against Tea Party incumbents elected in 2010. Deb Morrow is running in the Democratic primary in the state's 4th District for the chance to take on Trey Gowdy. And Jeanne van den Hurk of Greenville will challenge 3rd District congressman Jeff Duncan if she becomes the Democratic nominee.

Both say one of the main reasons they're running is the role money plays in politics. "There's becoming an awareness that corporations are holding us hostage," van den Hurk told me at an Occupy event in Columbia.

Occupy participants largely reject comparisons with the conservative Tea Party movement - and vice versa. "They want government," said Charleston Tea Party chairman Mike Murphree. "I don't want nothing to do with government."

Comparing movements on the US Left and Right

But although their politics are quite different, there are nevertheless some similarities. "Both movements are coming from the same place," argues Olson, "and that is anger, dissatisfaction, alienation, lack of trust in government."

Both movements say they've changed the national political dialogue: Tea Partiers claim that more Republican politicians are talking about federal spending and taxes; Occupiers point out that income inequality and corporate misdeeds are becoming part of the public discourse - even in the Republican primary.

There's no way to prove causality, but some Occupiers here note that Newt Gingrich and Rick Perry's attacks on Mitt Romney for his tenure at private equity firm Bain Capital sound very similar to what Occupy Wall Street has been saying all along (Perry went so far as to call Romney a "vulture capitalist" - not a charge often made by Republicans today). Archconservative pundit Rush Limbaugh took notice, averring that Gingrich is "singing from the same hymnal" as the Occupy movement.

Candidates' talking points come and go. Perhaps a longer-lasting political effect of the state's Occupy movement is the forging of a network of left-leaning activists "who didn't know each other a year ago", in the words of South Carolina Green Party co-chair Scott West. "We all know one another now."

We sure do! I now count both Deb Morrow and Jeanne van den Hurk among my friends.

Nice article, and thanks to the ever-intrepid Joni LeCompte for putting me onto it.