Saturday, March 21, 2009

They do it over there, but we don't do it here...

According to my recent stats, we are practically back to START, boys and girls. Ain't nobody reading. (But if you are, HI!) I figure this means I can post whatever I want, such as (see left) photos of myself selling important books about fiber diets, taken by my co-worker's brand new iphone.

I think I have earned a bad reputation in lefty/feminist Blogdonia: argumentative; always defending Jesus, Krishna and All Their Friends; not fully understanding why the people from good homes are talking this year.* (And last year, and next year, too.)

I am trying to formulate some ideas/theories about CLASS in Blogdonia. Being working class or coming from poor people, do we fit in? Well, that's just it. We don't. We are embarrassing. We uncomfortably remind the so-called progressives that their references to chi-chi vacations, private preschools and hoity-toity colleges, summer homes, pricey co-op apartments, frou-frou dinner parties, et. al. just JUMP RIGHT OUT AT US while reading blog posts. (Damn, I wish they didn't, but they just do.)

I am reminded of Roy Clark on The Beverly Hillbillies, the poor, dumb relations from back home who bother everybody, till we do some sort of minstrel act, some kind of savant show: Hey, we got talent, we know a few things!

In short, we are intimidated and do not belong. And they very much want us to go away, which is probably the reason I don't; I'm awfully stubborn. (Four different Virgos in my astrological chart! Just try and make me!) But certain big blogs have all but banished me/us, jumping on working class comments with aplomb; correcting, cajoling, intimidating. This reads: Who the hell are you, and what the fuck are you doing here?

Add AGE to the mix, and well, you get the idea.

In the past couple of weeks, I have commented on blogs in which the Original Poster was careful to thank EVERY PARTICIPANT BUT ME for their opinion. (I mean, come on, do you have to be so damned obvious about it?) Direct questions ignored, in favor of dialogue sought with young, stupid punks. Well, okay. I get it. If I knew the hip lingo, the cool shit to say, if I knew the right brand names and the right schools, maybe they'd thank me too.

But I won't hold my breath.

I mean, I was long-ago run off the cool-kids sooper-seekrit email list (see last post for my opinion about those) for using politically-incorrect language, so this is just more of the same. Thing is, as in the last instance, I dunno exactly what I am saying that is so wrong, and nobody will tell me. You are just supposed to KNOW. That is part of being the right kind of person, the right class and age.

Meanwhile (punch line) they all blabber on about diversity and inclusion. While the average participants of their blogs are all 20 years younger than me, have college degrees, etc. Yes, real diverse!

I try very hard to erase difference when posting on other blogs... I edit several times, I go through and take out simple words and insert longer, educated-sounding ones. (they are far easier on those posts, I've noticed) I don't think it matters, in the end: WE KNOW WHO YOU ARE. And I've been placed on moderation on several of my favorite blogs... and I don't even cuss usually, while other people are effing all over the place. Huh? (Is it more than cuss words? Then what is it?)

What to do? Quit blogging? They wouldn't miss us at all; that is exactly what they want us to do. They want Blogdonia to themselves, the way they run everything else. Well, maybe it makes no difference then. They run things, always have, and we only have the illusion of being part of what they have crafted for themselves.

Try to engage? And get either ignored or singled out in embarrassing ways?

I have no idea.

Opening the floor for discussion, and all 4 of my present readers can respond!


I missed some stuff in my rather hurried post yesterday, and wanted to add some links:

Talk radio guru Trevor Carey of Colorado's KNUS, made some really ferocious comments on his show, condoning violence against transgendered people, since they have supposedly "committed fraud." This is pretty gross.

I have emailed everybody in protest, and so should you. He really deserves to lose his job, not simply "disavow comments"--but I realize this is TALK RADIO and that is quite unlikely to happen.

But it should.

The idea that transgendered people are "committing fraud" is just, well, good God, do you think you have the right to know everything about a person? If a cisgendered woman seduces you, and you get home and discover she only has one breast, has she committed FRAUD by not sharing that with you until you are in an intimate setting? Not hardly. That is called DECENCY AND MODESTY, asshole. (Not that I would expect a talk-radio maven to comprehend that.)

You can download the Feminist Quran at Irshad Manji's website!

Chinese parliament has just passed a law making celebrities who endorse products LIABLE, if the product is questionable and/or harmful. Not a bad idea AT ALL, and since I hear about celebrities who pontificate about products every single day (yes, Oprah, I'm lookin at you)--I wouldn't mind if the USA had such a law, too.

Maybe then the glut of celebrity-infomercials would finally come to a grinding (and very welcome) halt.


*The title of this post is from David Bowie's "Fashion"--which of course, has all embedding disabled and I can't post it here. It is linked in the second paragraph.

The lyrics--

Listen to me (don't listen to me)
Talk to me (don't talk to me)
Dance with me (don't dance with me)

...just reminds me so much of Blogdonia...


Bryce said...

4 virgoes- oh fucking HELL!

DaisyDeadhead said...

YES! You should quiver in abject terror, Bryce.

Anonymous said...

You had me at the Roy Clark reference, my love.

Daisy said...

I read your blog every day from my Reader, even though I am not a good commenter!

Meowser said...

Am I one of the 4? If not, make me number 5, K? You have become one of my must-reads. And I share your dismay at the underhanded ageism in blogdonia. (I notice it also with neuronormativity. They have to "tolerate" us folks who are wired differently but that doesn't mean they like us.) If we're ever in the same city at the same time, I will totally buy you a veggie burger. Or whatever you like.

But please don't quit. It's one thing if you really want to or something else is coming up pressing for you -- nobody owes anyone else oceans of amazing free prose! But don't quit because you think nobody cares. I do. And I'll bet a lot more other people do than you think.

Rachel said...

I don't read every day, but I do read most of your posts.

I haven't encountered too much classism on Feministe or Feministing, and I try to be a champion for anti-classism (even though, through little achievement of my own, I currently enjoy a middle class lifestyle); but then again, I don't really engage in comment threads after I've had my say... which may or may not be because no one ever really listens to me anyway.

Anonymous said...


I don't agree with some of what you write, but I always find it interesting. Some people must have very thin skins to be putting you on moderation.



Kia said...

First off, I'd like to say that I enjoy your blog. I'm a new poster but have read it for several months and am glad that you are here to stay.

I've had a couple of tiny, journal-like blogs and they are not part of any wider blogging circle. But my posts make it very clear that I'm a speaking from a certain place, both economically and socially. I'm the first to acknowledge it and I never apologize for it.

My most recent blog is a month old but previous ones put me into contact with all sorts of people. And I'm the chatty, let's get to know each sort both in person and on line, so I engage with everyone.

I'm not narcissistic enough to think you're referring to me in particular but I wanted to put my two cents into the discussion as opposed to just lurking.

Take Care,

La Lubu said...

Oh hell, Daisy. Don't ever leave! Number one, you're too good a writer. Number two, don't give the mutha-fuggas the satisfaction. Number three....I feel a little less lonely in blogdonia when you're here---a little less like Alice when she fell down the rabbit hole.

Yeah, I get the....'some references' "jumping out at me" feeling too. Blogdonia is like a foreign land where I don't share the language. I try; I've got some of the language (or think I do), but then....I don't understand the nuances, the "code". My codes are different.

I'm still determined to remind people "I'M HERE! (DAMMIT!)".

Weasel said...

Another one here for the Google reader crowd, Came for the Dead videos and stayed for ... everything else ;).

I suggest the most irritating thing to any that are in need of a little discomfort is just to keep talking.

kikipotamus said...

I also read more than I comment. :)

mrsmadrigal said...

Oh Daisy,
FOUR virgos!!
You just keep on bloggin' your stuff because it's good. You make me think. I'm an atheist but fully respect your beliefs. I'm Trans and appreciate your support. I'm a feminist and agree with attacks on "classism". I'm bad at contibuting (but so like it when you comment at MM).

ArrogantWorm said...

Are you - sure -your stat counters' working correctly? I generally have more'n four, and that's from accidental hits. With all the stuff you've written you're bound to get more accidental hits than me, let alone people coming here deliberately.

The thing about 'savant' shows is they don't believe you're actually doing whatever-it-is you can do. It isn't an "Omigawd, lookit that, June! He knows sumthin'!" because they don't believe you actually - know - it, and they'll stand there as long as you let 'em with the stupidest expressions trying to find something in your area of expertise that you - can't - do, and they'll insist you're not doing it as it's happening, at least when you're younger. Fuckers. Treated more like a parlor trick instead of info you've access to or stumbled over that's grudgingly read.

thene said...

4 Virgos? Hot. I think I have only one - my rising sign. :) (My husband has six Scorpios...)

I'm one of your 17 Bloglines subscribers, so don't give up yet!

I mean, I was long-ago run off the cool-kids sooper-seekrit email list (see last post for my opinion about those) for using politically-incorrect language, so this is just more of the same.

Interesting about 'politically incorrect language' because class is an issue which isn't covered as standard, you might say, when we all tell each other to not use oppressive language. But as ever, we're all at the intersections; people not knowing that they make you uncomfortable doesn't make what they do okay, and you not knowing what you were saying wrong doesn't make what you were saying okay.

I don't hang out on that list currently - not for political reasons, I'm just putting my time into fangirling lately instead, which I frankly don't see as a vastly less worthy hobby for me to have - but tbh I think there's hypocrisy about the matter of inclusion. If it were such a bad thing, would you have spent so much time on it in the first place? If we were all A-listers, would we still be critical of how the blogosphere works - or would we be spouting the utopian shittalk about how it's making Everyone's Voices Be Heard instead?

John Powers said...

I don't have the perspective you do about blogdonia; I just don't get around as much.

You rightly point out the hazards of cliques. Class surely is one approach to understanding the in and out groups. Phil Jones has used "netocracy" as an approach. I have not read the book. What I find interesting about Phil's netocratic thinking is he see clearly both an upside and downside. That's quite a contrast to the flights of cyber-utopianism I'm subject to.

So you've burnt through some links in your network, you'll forge new ones. Your network is really quite sprawling and I'm sure you'd be the first to admit it's an interesting one.

Renee said...

Daisy I don't comment as often as I should but I totally relate to you on the black sheep thing (no pun intended) I cannot tell you not to quit because you have to do what will bring you peace. I can say much of what you write I support and I firmly agree that people need to be pushed into having conversations that they don't want to have. Most of this avoidance is privilege denial behaviour. If it were not so they would not get their backs up every time they are called out.Dome of the clique act like cats being sprayed with water the moment you have the audacity to present a different point of view. I am sending you a warm cyber hug and I hope that what ever you decide to do ultimately brings you the peace that you deserve. In solidarity...

Annie said...

Misfit power! I'm close to the cusp of Virgo and my Venus is in Virgo, which has it's definite down side!
Hang in here-it ebbs and flows.

DaisyDeadhead said...

Yall made me cry when I read these! (((sniffs)))

Thene: but tbh I think there's hypocrisy about the matter of inclusion. If it were such a bad thing, would you have spent so much time on it in the first place?

Thene, I really enjoy "belonging" (anywhere) on those occasions when I unreservedly do: Yippies, radical feminists, Catholic Church, AA, various jobs, etc... and then I always end up not-belonging for some reason. (I think this is human nature, but also proof of the Buddhist concept that we are always-changing and simply not the same people we once were, or at least should not be, if we are evolving.)

Once I leave a group or feel estranged from it, I always see its flaws in stark relief, when I could not see the flaws from the inside.

Marion said...

You're beautiful, Daisy! When I am in the mood to read other blogs, yours is one of the first I gravitate towards...always something which interests me here. I want to thank you very much for your writing.

RamoneSmith said...

I'm another Google Reader reader. Do you get stats about how many people read your blog via RSS feeds? I'm curious how that works out as a portion of the total.

mzbitca said...


I always enjoy your blog. Especially when you discuss your religious upbringing. I'm Serbian Orthodox and there is so much ritual and tradition combined with the ethnicity that I do not want to turn away from my religion, even with the flaws, there is too much positive there for me. It was nice to read from another feminist who still did have an attachment to her religion but was not blind to it's flaws as well.

thene said...

Once I leave a group or feel estranged from it, I always see its flaws in stark relief, when I could not see the flaws from the inside.

*nodnods* Makes sense (I'm so like that about Britishness and British social manners now)...and means we need to be all the more critical of groups while we're still inside them!

Nomen Nescio said...

class is a funny thing.

where i grew up, folks like to pretend we don't have any social classes. but that's a northern European welfare state; social equity is a point of pride, and pretending to have erased calss is part of that. doesn't mean there aren't social classes, and i was born into a solidly middle-class home. knew it before i was even in my teens, though i was probably late teens before i could articulate it rightly.

then i emigrated.

funny thing about moving across continents to settle in a country where you have no roots, no family, no connections --- that outsider's perspective shows you a lot of things the locals can't see. and hides some things from you they know about, too.

some U.S. americans seem to still tout how this country has no class divisions, but that's just yet another exercise of the American national sport (hypocrisy). there are more social stratifications here than where i was born. they're more fixed, too, less mobility.

(many Americans spot it, of course. this guy did. his book is a bit out of date, now, but still worth reading.)

funny thing about emigrating... you get this strange freedom to carve out your own place in your new society. you can pick your own new social stratum, within limits, if you have a bit of education and either a bit of money or the flair to pretend like you do. i ended up hanging on to the bottom edge of the lower middle class by the skin of my teeth. if i'd had more self-confidence, i still think i could've blatantly bluffed my way a lot higher.

you're a deadhead; right now i'm listening to Zevon. hardly upper-class music, either one. something about the realness there that attracts me, though. not a whole lot of hypocrisy in those songs, i don't think. i never could get into the American national sport.

one way or another, illegitimi non carborundum, keep on truckin'. i won't always read you --- i'm the kind of atheist who can't and won't respect your beliefs --- but you say things that need saying. don't quit.

Ann oDyne said...

G'day, g'day - Virgo blogger Down-Under Aussie here, reading you on a feed every Righteous post.
Don't stop now.

Rosa said...

Daisy, just wanted to say I love you! I do stop by here and often, I just don't always have much to say. Also, thanks for the suggestion about the amino acid L-Arginine, I'm looking into it.

Aji said...

I recently came accross your blog and have been reading along. I thought I would leave my first comment. I dont know what to say except that I have enjoyed reading. Nice blog. I will keep visiting this blog very often.


Anonymous said...

I realize that "the have and the have nots" will be the next wave of discrimination. I do. But I was raised in a place that evreyone worked to appear equal. No one knew who had mony and who didn't. It was rude to flaunt affluence. Who you were as a person was more important. Education was respected, especially self education. Respect and self respect were the keys to our back woods society. When people exhibit these tendencies I withdraw myself from them because they lack human compassion and self honesty. I say be real and let no one take from you your dignity of being a person that values others equally rich or poor if they are decent human beings. Who I was? Well my daddy was well off and self and my Mamma was poor. Me I am happy as I am. As far as my age well, others need my life wisdom and I give it to those who deserve it and ignore the others.
I read and I believe I have not commented in two years.
P.s. word verification coustin. Strange huh?

Bwca said...

re your "In the past couple of weeks, I have commented on blogs in which the Original Poster was careful to thank EVERY PARTICIPANT BUT ME for their opinion. (I mean, come on, do you have to be so damned obvious about it?)"

my link pal JT pointed out to me that I was getting that treatment at PC's blog (I hadn't noticed),
so I went over and said
"wazzup wit dis?"
and PC, genuinely mystified, said "Not intentional at all".

maybe it's the same for you.

generally, I don't respond to comments on my blogs because I cannot imagine why anybody would come back to look, but I do always visit Commentors blogs and comment in return.
peace and love to you