Tuesday, October 7, 2008

Greenville Immigration raid!

Federal agents execute warrant at Columbia Farms today, photo by George Gardner of the Greenville News.

~*~

In local news: A huge immigration bust involving 300 undocumented workers at Columbia Farms, Greenville chicken processing plant. It may well be the biggest immigration raid on record for the area.

Workers ran for doors when federal agents arrived at chicken plant, witnesses say

By Eric Connor and Paul Alongi • STAFF WRITERS, GREENVILLE NEWS
October 7, 2008


Federals agents this morning raided and detained about 300 people they believe to be illegal aliens working at House of Raeford's Columbia Farms poultry plant in Greenville -- an operation that one immigration official today called the biggest workplace raid ever in the Carolinas.

Investigators expected to spend the rest of Tuesday at the plant poring over employment documents and conducting interviews to gather evidence in what U.S. Attorney Walt Wilkins said will be an ongoing investigation into House of Raeford's employment practices.

Several workers began running for the doors as agents raided the processing plant at about 8:50 a.m. this morning as shifts were changing, witnesses said. All told, 450 officers were involved in the raid, though not all actually entered the building, Wilkins said.

The raid marks the biggest move yet in a 10-month federal investigation into hiring practices at the processing plant. In recent weeks, seven supervisors at the plant have pleaded guilty to falsifying employment documents . A human resources manager faces 20 counts of felony immigration fraud.

The raid is the biggest ever in the Carolinas, said Ken Smith, special agent-in-charge of the Atlanta Immigration and Customs Enforcement investigations office.

In the course of the investigation, agents reviewed 825 "I-9 forms" that verify a worker's immigration status -- and of those, 94 percent were found to be falsified, Wilkins said.

Of the 300 detained today, 58 have been let go and will be monitored as part of a "humanitarian detention program that will allow for hardships such as dependent children and medical issues, Wilkins said.

Workers inside the plant at the time of the raid said that several workers started running for the doors about 8:50 a.m.

"I had to duck back into the bathroom to keep from getting trampled," janitor Herbert Oscar Rooker said.

Nicole Freeman said she was putting a chicken breast on a machine when the running began. Some of the workers were yelling, "Policia!" and "ICE!" she said.

Agents blocked the doors, and workers were directed into a break room, Freeman said.

All U.S. citizens were told to go to one side of the room, while non-citizens were directed to the other side, Freeman said. She estimated the crowd at about 300.

Workers had to write down their names, where they were born and their parents’ names, Freeman said.

"They made us show our ID," she said.

Workers who were allowed to leave had to put on blue wristbands bearing their names to get out the door, Freeman said.

While about 450 agents were involved in today’s operation, not all of them were on the scene, Wilkins said.

Truck driver Richard Worley said he was going to pick up his trailer when he saw "about 100" agents swarm the plant. From the outside of the plant, he couldn’t see workers running, he said.

"It’s just wild," Worley said.

Wilkins said the majority of illegal workers will be administratively processed and deported. The U.S. Attorney’s Office will handle any cases deemed worthy of prosecution, he said.

In the raid’s aftermath, friends and family gathered outside the Columbia Farms’ gate to await word on their loved ones.

Three small children ran around a tree and kicked rocks. A woman wiped away tears.

Melissa Islas of Greenville waited to learn about her friend, who she said was a single father of a 17-month-old boy named Anthony.

"If I have to, I’ll take care of him," she said.

Some workers were confused about when they were supposed to return to the plant.

"I came out here because the officer told me to go home," supervisor Luis Mahecha said.

But Mahecha said he saw his boss outside, and he said, "Don’t go. We’re trying to work later on."

Freeman said she was worried.

"If they took all of our workers," she said, "we’re out of work."
...


Nationally, the raid has also made the news:

300 suspected illegal immigrants caught in SC raid

By MITCH WEISS and JEFFREY COLLINS, Associated Press

GREENVILLE, S.C. - Federal agents swept through a chicken processing plant Tuesday, detaining more than 300 suspected illegal immigrants, sending panicked workers running and screaming through the hallways. Worried relatives collected outside, fearful their loved ones would be deported.

Police and agents during a shift change ordered all workers at the House of Raeford's Columbia Farms to show identification, according to officials and witnesses. The business had been under scrutiny for months and the raid comes on the heels of even larger roundups at plants across the country.

Maria Juan, 22, was one of about 50 relatives and friends who huddled at the edge of the plant after the raid, some weeping and others talking frantically on cell phones. She was seeking information about her 68-year-old grandmother, a legal immigrant from Guatemala who went to work without identification papers but was later released.

"Families are going to be broken apart," Juan said. "There will be kids and babies left behind. Why are they doing this? Why? They didn't do anything. They only wanted to work."

Workers began running down hallways crying and screaming, said Herbert Rooker, 54, a third-shift janitor. He wore a blue band on his wrist, indicating agents had determined he was in the country legally.

Rooker had to duck into a bathroom to avoid what he called a stampede of people.

"I didn't know what they were running from. I had no reason to run," said Rooker who remained at the plant five hours after the raid because police still had his truck blocked.

Immigration officials kept the workers inside, spending most of the morning trying to figure out how many are in the country illegally, Assistant U.S. Attorney Kevin McDonald said.

The number could be substantial. A recent review found that immigration paperwork for more than 775 of 825 workers contained false information, McDonald said. Immigration agents scoured the plant for paperwork and other information for the investigation.

Hector Zapata said he was hauled in when he dropped his daughter off for work. Agents ignored his cries that he didn't work there, he said. Seven hours later, his daughter, in the U.S. legally, emerged, joining dozens of others milling around trying to figure out where their loved ones were being taken.

When he heard about the raid, Mateo Matias got his neighbor's three children out of school and brought them to the plant. He wanted immigration officials to see the boys — ages 4, 5 and 6 — in hopes they might release their mother, who is from Guatemala, where her husband remains.

"The mother is fighting for a better life so the children can survive," Matias said.

House of Raeford processes chickens and turkeys in eight plants in North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia, Louisiana and Michigan. A sales manager at the Greenville plant referred questions to the company's Rose Hill, N.C., headquarters, where a woman answering the phone said there was no immediate comment.

Federal prosecutors and immigration agents have been investigating the plant's hiring practices for several months. Eleven supervisors and the plant's human resources director have been charged, most accused of falsifying documents. Seven have pleaded guilty, three are awaiting trial and two have fled, McDonald said.

U.S. Attorney Walt Wilkins wouldn't say whether other plants or executives were being investigated.

The Charlotte Observer first reported in February that plant workers were in the country illegally and company managers knew it.

One worker backed up that account Tuesday.

"Everyone knew most of the workers were illegal. It was no secret. We just came in and did our work and you kept to yourself," said Dorothy Anthony, who works with sister Alice on the deboning line.

The women, both American citizens, were released after showing ID.

Greenville immigration attorney Amy Shelley said the phone at her law firm was ringing nonstop Tuesday as word of the raid spread. She didn't have any clients yet, but figures she will represent some of the arrested workers.

"The frustrating thing is most of their families don't know anything right now either," she said.

Officials are arranging to care for children of workers detained in the raid, one of several nationwide this year.

In August, more than 600 suspected illegal immigrants were detained at a Mississippi transformer plant in the largest single-workplace immigration raid in U.S. history. And in May, federal immigration officials swept into Agriprocessors, the nation's largest kosher meatpacking plant, in Iowa. Nearly 400 workers were detained and dozens of fraudulent permanent resident alien cards were seized from the plant's human resources department, according to court records.
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Listening to: The Pretenders - The Wait
via FoxyTunes

33 comments:

mikeb302000 said...

I have a soft spot for immigrants. I think they are often unfairly disparaged and disrespected. I see them as courageous people who have made great sacrifice to better themselves and their families. I don't think that old "they take jobs away from Americans" argument really holds water. If it were up to me, I'd offer them citizenship just for being there and having a job.

JoJo said...

Me, not so much. If they want to come to our country LEGALLY, more power to 'em. But I am 100% against giving any illegal alien any kind of benefit or job till they can come thru the front door, like MY family did in the early 1900's and my father did when he was 18. He became a citizen and immediately enlisted in the US Army. My mother's family legally came to America from Italy and learned to SPEAK ENGLISH. They paid taxes and it was very hard for them to accept any kind of charity, esp. during the Depression.

Sorry, but I have zero sympathy for anyone who is in this country illegally and gets deported.

Daisy said...

Follow up: Assistance being provided for detained poultry workers

Almost 60 poultry workers were released on humanitarian reasons, usually because of a woman being pregnant or a child who has only one parent in the area, federal officials said.

Anonymous said...

Well there are 300 jobs Greenville, SC so all those sorry people that haven't work in the last 2-3 years. GET A JOB

Anonymous said...

I want to leave some cold hard facts about these plants.
* Plant managers will systematically fired and lay off U.S citizens so that they can hire Illegals for less money.
* For example in the raid in Miss .U.S citizens were being paid between $25 and $35 a hour to work at the plant, they got breaks, and were treated in accordance with labor laws.
* Illegals were brought in and were paid $7 a hour. They were given one 5 or 7 minute (depending on your sex) bathroom break a day.
*All of the jobs they had were previously held by a U.S citizen who also wanted to work and make a better life for their family.
*Most people have the misconception that illegals aren't paid much. For example if the real wage is $30 an illegal could be paid as much as $15.
* Im aware of a lot of uneducated U.S citizens who will work for $15 and most certainly $30 a hour.
*The plants won't give U.S. citizens overtime and force the illegals to work long hours.
*The plants employ juveniles such as kids 13 and 14 years old and they are working with dangerous equipment for 12 hour shifts.
*Plant managers work with human smuggling rings (criminals) to recruit the illegals.
*After the raids, U.S citizens show up to take these jobs.
* In this economy how can a U.S. citizen say that an illegal deserves a job on our land more than a U.S citizen.
*Illegals working in fields all day picking grapes for $3 a day is a thing of the past. They are moving to the indrustrialized plants where they make a decent living.
* A fact is that the plants fire the higher paid worker to hire the lesser paid worker.
*What do we do with the displaced American worker?
*What about his family? Don't they deserve a better life?
*The illegal worker can't speak up about work conditions, hours, or sexual misconduct from supervisors. They are immediately fired.
*What's going on in these plants is a modern day form of slavery.
*The kicker is that when they bring the illegals in and pay them only $15 a hour they company still sells the items such as food, merchandise, etc as if they were still employing the $30 an hour worker. You don't get a break because an illegal made it. You still pay full price which further lines the pockets of the companies.

Daisy said...

Anonymous, okay, why are you proposing to punish the illegals, rather than the person who is exploiting them?

Examples from your list--

* Plant managers will systematically fired and lay off U.S citizens so that they can hire Illegals for less money.

And these managers should lose their jobs for BREAKING THE LAW. But management can pretty much do what it wants here in the south since there are NO UNIONS.

So, are you pro-union now?

* For example in the raid in Miss .U.S citizens were being paid between $25 and $35 a hour to work at the plant, they got breaks, and were treated in accordance with labor laws.

Thanks to unions!

* Illegals were brought in and were paid $7 a hour. They were given one 5 or 7 minute (depending on your sex) bathroom break a day.

No unions, no protection. If you don't like this, be sure to fight for unions and vote Democratic.

*All of the jobs they had were previously held by a U.S citizen who also wanted to work and make a better life for their family.

See above.

*Most people have the misconception that illegals aren't paid much. For example if the real wage is $30 an illegal could be paid as much as $15.

And that wage supports HOW many people? Including the folks back home in Mexico?

* Im aware of a lot of uneducated U.S citizens who will work for $15 and most certainly $30 a hour.

No argument here...your point?

*The plants won't give U.S. citizens overtime and force the illegals to work long hours.

This has happened to me personally, so I am aware that you are correct.

What are you doing to make sure the plants are punished for this?

Do you think the illegals decide all of this?

*The plants employ juveniles such as kids 13 and 14 years old and they are working with dangerous equipment for 12 hour shifts.

Again, correct--Greenville News follow up article: Labor Department probes for violations of child labor laws at chicken plant

*Plant managers work with human smuggling rings (criminals) to recruit the illegals.

Again, when there are no unions, you give management license to do whatever they want.

Why are you blaming the illegals for what the plant managers are doing? Are you advocating public shaming and punishment for these people?

*After the raids, U.S citizens show up to take these jobs.

Actually, according to accounts I've read, that isn't true. Citizens typically expect higher wages and don't usually settle for less, at least not for the LONG TERM. (You can hire anyone for a month or two--but Latinos routinely stay in low-wage jobs for long periods.)

* In this economy how can a U.S. citizen say that an illegal deserves a job on our land more than a U.S citizen.

Nobody "deserves" a job. Will they work hard for a job? Harder than anyone else? Longer hours for less money? That is the bottom line in this country... and that is the reason they are hiring them--minimum wage guarantees do not apply to illegals. They bus tables all night long and just work for tips and change--and that is EXACTLY what they do. Who pockets the money? Who is profiting? Why are you blaming some Mexican who washes the dishes in your fancy-ass restaurant, but you won't blame the restaurant-owner?

*Illegals working in fields all day picking grapes for $3 a day is a thing of the past. They are moving to the indrustrialized plants where they make a decent living.

The illegals go where the jobs are. They didn't have some big meeting to decide this, the owners of the plants did.

* A fact is that the plants fire the higher paid worker to hire the lesser paid worker.

In a place with no unions, this has always happened. The reason it seems more upsetting to you now is that the lesser-paid person is brown and speaks Spanish and is not a US citizen. But this is standard practice in all business: cut every available economic corner... if one person can do the work of two, go for it.

*What do we do with the displaced American worker?

Good question. For a start, elect Barack Obama and get rid of Republicans who kiss the asses of big business, telling the GOP grass-roots (looking at you, Henry McMaster!) they will get rid of illegals, then simultaneously passing all kinds of laws/loopholes to make it easier for businesses to hire them.

I think they call that "talking out of both sides of your mouth"...

*What about his family? Don't they deserve a better life?

See above.

*The illegal worker can't speak up about work conditions, hours, or sexual misconduct from supervisors. They are immediately fired.

From management's perspective, that makes them the perfect employee, doesn't it?

No unions, no protection.

*What's going on in these plants is a modern day form of slavery.

Amen.

*The kicker is that when they bring the illegals in and pay them only $15 a hour they company still sells the items such as food, merchandise, etc as if they were still employing the $30 an hour worker. You don't get a break because an illegal made it. You still pay full price which further lines the pockets of the companies.

And I said AMEN again!!!

Anonymous, I am not well-versed in immigration issues, but I managed to reply to your all of your talking points. The fact is, we differ on where the blame belongs. I do not want to blame innocent people who likely came here with the PROMISE, yes I said the PROMISE of a job, delivered through a sister, brother, mom, cousin. "Bring los campesinos around, and we can get them a gig!" is how most of the hiring is done, word of mouth. I want to know WHO is profiting and why they are never the ones arrested.

Jojo, I think you do agree that employers who break the law should be held accountable also. They are only here because someone WANTS THEM HERE and PAYS THEM. I want the whole thing EXPOSED for what it is. The conservatives love capitalism and money? Well, this is the engine that drives it: cheap labor and no unions to protect workers' rights so they cannot be fired or replaced on a whim.

And Jojo, I hear you on the family thing, but difference between now and your/my ancestors is that there is a huge industry in hiring illegals now, when back in the day, they would nail you to the wall for that. It simply was NOT permitted in the up-front, brazen way it is now. Lots of industries are getting very very rich off of cheap labor, and as long as these businesses call the shots, pay their Chamber of Commerce dues and make the correct political contributions, it will continue.

First law of capitalism: if something is not profitable, it does not continue. (Gramsci? Somebody like that.)

And besides this... according to my genealogy, I have illegal immigrant ancestors all over the place, including a mail-order bride and (my favorite!) a guy who wouldn't tell anyone what country he was from.

Anonymous said...

Illegals are stealing jobs from U.S. citizens, our tax dollars (to pay for the education of their children, instead of our children), our U.S. Social Security numbers or they use fraudulent S.S. numbers, which is a felony.

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/job-seekers-converge-on-chicken-plant-after-raid/667005181

Annie said...

it's embarrassing to be an american sometimes. sigh.

Daisy said...

Anonymous (same as above, I assume?): Illegals are stealing jobs from U.S. citizens

So--they just waltz in and do this AT WILL without ANY HELP AT ALL?! Damn, every time I have ever gotten a job (and I've had a bushel of em, sometimes 2-3 at once) someone has HIRED me and DECIDED ON my wages.

How do they get hired all by themselves? Huh?

Again, why are you placing blame on the workers rather than the people perpetrating this, the employers? This situation would not exist without BASIC SUPPLY AND DEMAND FOR CHEAP LABOR. PERIOD.

our tax dollars (to pay for the education of their children, instead of our children)

Instead of "our" children? Huh? Speak for yourself, dude. My daughter went to public school, as my granddaughter will, too. If you choose not to send your kids to a public school, that's your problem, not mine.

our U.S. Social Security numbers or they use fraudulent S.S. numbers, which is a felony.

And who provides these non-English-speakers with these numbers and the knowledge of what they mean? The same plant managers you mentioned in your last post (if you are the same anon?)... most immigrants don't know the particulars, and all of that bureaucratic paperwork is done FOR THEM.

How many immigrants have you personally worked with? Do you have any firsthand knowledge of what you are talking about? Because all of this sounds like O'Reilly/Faux News remix to me.

Annie said...

you go, daisy!

Rose said...

How many IMMIGRANTS do I know? I know plenty of IMMIGRANTS from Brazil, Mexico and other countries, who have come here LEGALLY.

We allow over 1,000,000 LEGAL IMMIGRANTS in our country, on 23 different guest worker visas, every year.

ILLEGAL ALIENS are not immigrants. They are criminals, being given SPECIAL PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT over U.S. CITIZENS.

ILLEGAL ALIENS know exactly, what they are doing. They knowingly and arrogantly break our immigration laws, because they know they will and have gotten away with it.

Read the article. These Foreign Illegal aliens, did not think they would get caught or punished.

Keep cheering for Illegal Foreign Nationals, instead of U.S. citizens, who have to follow our laws.

The New Bigotry, is against every U.S. citizen. We have to follow our laws, but illegals do not have to.

You have no right to steal the hard earned tax dollars of U.S. citizens, to pay for the crime of your pet Illegal Foreign Aliens.

Stealing is stealing. When you do the crime, do the time. The punishment for being here illegally, is DEPORTATION. Suck it up, just like every U.S. citizen has to.

Welcome to Equal Rights. Oh, you do not believe in Equal Rights. You believe Illegals have more rights, than U.S. citizens and our children.

Rose said...

I believe in EQUAL RIGHTS for all. All U.S. citizens want, is to treat Illegal Aliens EQUALLY, the way we treat our own citizens. We want to punish them, EQUALLY, the way we punish our U.S. fellow countrymen for breaking our laws.

Mexico throws, their ILLEGAL ALIENS into prison, then they DEPORT them.

I am speaking out for EQUAL RIGHTS for the 304,000,000 U.S. citizens of this great country. We have the same EQUAL RIGHT to DEPORT ILLEGALS, just like Mexico does.

It is not my HUMAN RIGHT, or anyone's HUMAN RIGHT to enter someone else's country, without that country's permission.

I know, you could care less, about the 304,000,000 U.S. citizens and our children.

When you stand with Foreign Illegal Aliens, you stand, against every U.S. citizen.

Daisy said...

If I want preaching, I'll go to church.

Could you at least ATTEMPT to answer the direct questions I asked? I count at least a dozen that you ignored. If you want to have a discussion, then DISCUSS my points, please. If you just wanna soapbox, I can too:

UNLESS YOU ARE 100% NATIVE AMERICAN, YOUR ANCESTORS CAME FROM SOMEPLACE ELSE, AND YOU HAVE NO IDEA (unless you can produce a genealogy going back 12 generations, and I can, how about you?) IF THEY WERE LEGAL OR NOT. This concept is actually pretty new in history. Our ancestors came here and STOLE the place out from under its original inhabitants, who looked a helluva lot more like the Pedros and Marias than they look like ME, and probably YOU. The least we owe the relatives of the original inhabitants of our country, as PATRIOTS, is to listen to what they have to say.

See, I can preach too. So? And what does that accomplish?

If you ever want a real DISCUSSION about WHAT TO DO ABOUT THE SITUATION, go ahead, take your head out of your ass, and attempt that. So far, see no evidence of anything but blather.

And the fisking, continues forthwith.

I know plenty of IMMIGRANTS from Brazil, Mexico and other countries, who have come here LEGALLY.

Really? How do you know? Did they tell you that? Did you SEE the green card?

They probably speak English pretty well, so you believe whatever they tell you. Or maybe you employ them yourself and look the other way when they present some unlikely Social Security #. ?

You don't know anyone's citizenship status for certain.

ILLEGAL ALIENS are not immigrants. They are criminals, being given SPECIAL PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT over U.S. CITIZENS.

AND WHO THE HELL IS HIRING THESE PEOPLE? According to your definition, CRIMINALS, DELIBERATELY BREAKING THE LAW, WHO READ ENGLISH PERFECTLY AND KNOW THE LAWS THEY ARE BREAKING, UNLIKE (most of) THE PEOPLE YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. When I hear you say, yes, Henry McMaster the loophole-creator and the plant managers (mentioned in the post by previous-anonymous), the managers who knowingly hire illegals, will all be held as accountable as the PEOPLE THEY ARE TRAFFICKING LIKE CATTLE, then I'll listen. Otherwise, you're simply spouting a bunch of racist BULLSHIT about SELECTIVELY enforcing the law.

ILLEGAL ALIENS know exactly, what they are doing. They knowingly and arrogantly break our immigration laws, because they know they will and have gotten away with it.

Yes, they know that their cousin says they have a job in the USA, they get here and they get the job that was duly promised to them.

I've heard various lawn-care services, etc, ask Mexicans, you got any brothers or sisters coming up soon?

Are you saying these employers should get away with this TOO? You are curiously SILENT about the US CITIZENS who are providing all this employment. Are you ready to throw these women with illegal nannies in jail too? Didn't think so. YOU are advocating preferential treatment for BOSSES, and them's fightin words around here, ma'am. FUCK THE BOSSES, and FUCK THE MANAGERS and FUCK THE OWNERS OF BUSINESSES GETTING FILTHY FUCKING RICH OFF THE BACKS OF POOR UNEDUCATED CAMPESINOS!!!!!

The reason this country is going UNDER is because people like you believe the endless, lying okey-dokey from the RICH and kiss their disgusting, immoral asses. CEOS make millions, and you fuss over a goddamn peasant making $4.15 an hour!

Wake UP.

Read the article. These Foreign Illegal aliens, did not think they would get caught or punished.

Of course not, they were promised jobs, weren't they? They were law-abiding in all other ways and worked their ASSES OFF in that filthy, disgusting CHARNEL HOUSE.

Keep cheering for Illegal Foreign Nationals, instead of U.S. citizens, who have to follow our laws.

Who is "cheering"? Can you fucking read? I was trying to discuss this rationally, but then you come in here with your idiocy and your capital letters. Go ahead, kiss rich people's asses, then wonder where ALL YOUR MONEY WENT when steal it right out from UNDER YOU.

The New Bigotry, is against every U.S. citizen. We have to follow our laws, but illegals do not have to.

Really? Prove it. Is this a new loophole from Henry McMaster?
(Maybe you should talk to HIM about it.)

You have no right to steal the hard earned tax dollars of U.S. citizens, to pay for the crime of your pet Illegal Foreign Aliens.

How did *I* steal money? Actually, the CEOS of AIG and CountryWide Financial are the ones currently STEALING YOUR MONEY, and that apparently suits you fine, since you are here arguing with me over a few cents... people stealing HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS from you is apparently just fine with you. But let those uppity peasants try making a few dimes in tips, and you get your self-righteous knickers in a twist.

(What's wrong with this picture?)

Stealing is stealing. When you do the crime, do the time. The punishment for being here illegally, is DEPORTATION. Suck it up, just like every U.S. citizen has to.

And you feel this way about the people who hire them, too?

Just answer: yes or no.

Are you in favor of automatically jailing everyone who hires an illegal? (the equivalent of automatic deportation) Can you prove all of Mitt Romney's lawn staff are LEGAL?

HOW ABOUT BOB JONES?

Welcome to Equal Rights. Oh, you do not believe in Equal Rights. You believe Illegals have more rights, than U.S. citizens and our children.

Quote me exactly where I said that. If you can't (and of course you can't, since I didn't) you are full of shit. Faux news is making you stupid, avoid, avoid!

I believe in EQUAL RIGHTS for all. All U.S. citizens want, is to treat Illegal Aliens EQUALLY, the way we treat our own citizens. We want to punish them, EQUALLY, the way we punish our U.S. fellow countrymen for breaking our laws.

And a good way to determine this is for you to answer my question:

Are you in favor of AUTOMATICALLY throwing the people in jail who hire illegals? ALL OF THEM? Yes, including movie stars... and your sweet suburban son and daughter-in-law and her illegal nanny and maid qualify. YES OR NO?

Why a different status of legality for employer and employee? EQUAL, huh? Your "equal rights" bullshit is just that: bullshit.

Mexico throws, their ILLEGAL ALIENS into prison, then they DEPORT them.

Your point? SO? You realize they do not have a Bill of Rights in Mexico, yes? Are you suggesting they are correct not to have one, and we should flush it down the toilet?

Now, who is talking UN-AMERICAN trash?

I am speaking out for EQUAL RIGHTS for the 304,000,000 U.S. citizens of this great country. We have the same EQUAL RIGHT to DEPORT ILLEGALS, just like Mexico does.

Soapbox elsewhere, it's boring, you already said that.

It is not my HUMAN RIGHT, or anyone's HUMAN RIGHT to enter someone else's country, without that country's permission.

HAHAHA! Does that include Iraq and Afghanistan, or do you make some kind of Faux News exceptions for that?

I know, you could care less, about the 304,000,000 U.S. citizens and our children.

Is that why I've been in politics since the George McGovern campaign? And what have YOU done politically, Rose? I will expect to see an itemized list, and it better be good. (but I won't hold my breath)

I mean, you recycle everything, yes? You CARE about the people and don't eat meat and create more methane and greenhouse gasses, right? You are doing something about global warming? WHAT, pray tell, do you DO besides bitch about the brown people mowing your lawn?

When you stand with Foreign Illegal Aliens, you stand, against every U.S. citizen.

And you are the reason we are paying billions to bail out the rich, while you worry about some hungry brown people waiting tables.

Fuck off.

Amber Rhea said...

Crap. I just found out I'm related to Henry McMaster. :P

Rose said...

The Native Indians came from somewhere. We all started in Africa. Indians, Mexicans, everyone has fought and killed for territory. Whoever wins the war, wins the territory. We won this territory. Simply and factually put. This country belongs to us.

It is so racist of you, to say, U.S. citizens, do not want illegals here, because they are "brown".

What a racist comment. We do not want them here, because we did not give them permission to be here.

I have no problem if they want this land back, but let them have to fight, bleed and die for it, like my ancestors did.

I can trace my genealogy, back to the 1100's. My ancestors came here, 350 years ago. They fought in the Indian Wars, The Revolutionary War, Civil War, WW1, WW2 and so forth.

Not going to debate with you, because there is no debate. This United States of America, belongs to the U.S. citizens of this country. We have the right to say, who comes and who goes.

We won this county, with our ancestors blood. Illegals want it, let them fight for it.

We all want a better life. They want a better life, let them have some balls and fight, like our ancestors did.

No, that is too easy. They walk in our country and put their hands out, expecting it to be handed to them. Not going to happen. They will have to fight for it.

We will show them, what it takes to win a nation. It isn't marching in the streets and making demands, in a country that isn't yours. Eventually, they will have to fight.

We will win, again.

Daisy said...

Rose, do you not know how to answer questions? You are rude. I asked you dozens of questions and you did not answer a single one. This means, of course, you don't have any answers, obviously. Also, this shows me that you only care about yourself, not a discussion and not "fairness"--so drop please the fucking pretense.

You just want to air your dopey little Sean Hannity-derived opinions. I just hope you are a fake... I shudder to think you are a real human being who is so deluded, arrogant, and ignorant. Where did you get your history, a McGuffey Reader?

Whoever wins the war, wins the territory. We won this territory. Simply and factually put. This country belongs to us.

No, it was STOLEN, fair and square... Ronald Reagan's infamous statement about the Panama Canal. (He was your president, right?)

Let me ask: Who is this "us" you refer to? Are you still subscribing to John Wayne fantasies?

Maybe it's time for people like you to LOSE, at long last. You are educating me about your racism, so I guess I should thank you for showing me your enduring, rude, fascist ideology; manifest destiny up your ass, farting up the joint.

It is so racist of you, to say, U.S. citizens, do not want illegals here, because they are "brown".

Yes, that's your actual reason, which apparently you are too dishonest to admit even to yourself. You just said the brown people were vanquished, and that white people own this land... didn't you JUST SAY THAT? You realize at the time of the wars you speak of, Indians and blacks had no civil rights, including the right to be considered victors and subsequent landowners? Thus, when you say "we won it"--you refer exclusively to white people.

You have the Faux News habit of issuing mindless God-Bless-America proclamations with no facts and then calling that a discussion or reasoned argument. Sorry, hon, but it just makes you look like a teenybopper jerking off to Rush Limbaugh--extremely unbecoming. You are no thoughtful citizen, you have turned over your sovereignty to Faux News, the GOP and Sean Hannity... you are totally unable to think for yourself.

What a racist comment. We do not want them here, because we did not give them permission to be here.

And again, one of the dozens of questions you missed: I asked if your logic applies to Iraq? Obviously we were not given PERMISSION to go there either. So, you are in favor of full and immediate withdrawal, by that logic?

If not, you are a liar.

I have no problem if they want this land back, but let them have to fight, bleed and die for it, like my ancestors did.

You are wacked out.

I can trace my genealogy, back to the 1100's.

Not hardly, hon. Extremely few Americans of European extraction can trace their genealogy comprehensively before the Reformation--the records got all fucked up. Unless of course, you come from rich people... and that would explain a lot. But if that's the case, please say so, and I will not engage further as it would be a waste of time.

My ancestors came here, 350 years ago.

Mine arrived in New Amsterdam in 1625. Beat ya.

Now, get the fuck out of here, my people were here first and we don't like yours. :P

I also trace one side of my family back to the Blackfoot Nation and the Creek, the original inhabitants. If you can't, it would suggest that your family did not intermarry, even though you claim they lived on this continent for 350 years?

Hmm. How did they avoid that? Are you claiming to be 100% white? If so, that too, would explain a lot and we would have nothing more to say to each other.

They fought in the Indian Wars, The Revolutionary War, Civil War, WW1, WW2 and so forth.

Yes, mine too, AND of course, my people fought on both sides of the Indian Wars, including the French and Indian War. Also, my ancestors fought for the CSA and the Union. I am as entitled to call myself an American as you are, by your logic or anyone else's. And I will not let you define America that way, as I won't let fundies define the Church. Over my dead body.

Not going to debate with you, because there is no debate. This United States of America, belongs to the U.S. citizens of this country. We have the right to say, who comes and who goes.

Do the Iraqi people have this right, or do you only grant it to Americans?

We won this county, with our ancestors blood. Illegals want it, let them fight for it.

Now see, at this point, you sound like a John Ford movie... I think you are a fake. (Nobody really talks like this anymore, do they?)

We all want a better life. They want a better life, let them have some balls and fight, like our ancestors did.

I hope they kick your sorry ass in the process.

No, that is too easy. They walk in our country and put their hands out, expecting it to be handed to them. Not going to happen. They will have to fight for it.

And you are presently arming yourself to go to the border and shoot Mexicans? Is that what I understand you to say?

John Ford AND King Vidor, Lord have mercy. You are fucking wackadoodle, lady.

We will show them, what it takes to win a nation. It isn't marching in the streets and making demands, in a country that isn't yours. Eventually, they will have to fight.

But before that happens, hope one marries your daughter or your son AND rapidly commences making babies forthwith. Maybe after one of the dreaded brown people is your relative, you will learn some decency and compassion.

We will win, again.

Rose, once more, with feeling, FUCK OFF. I do not want to read this incoherent John Ford/King Vidor script AGAIN, please.

NOW FUCK OFF.

Anonymous said...

This is from the first anon that posted the facts. I didn't post anything else until now.

First things first. I don't have a problem with the illegals being brown. I don't know where that deduction came from because since I am brown myself I dislike negative comments towards minorities. Daisy that was a incorrect assumption on your part about me not liking them because they were brown.

Nowhere did I say "punish" the illegals. Again that is another deduction you incorrectly made. I was responding to the person that said illegals don't take jobs from U.S. citizens.

You say you are not well versed in Immigration and it shows. On the other hand I am very very well versed in immigration.

If more attention was paid to the entire raids instead of the round up of the illegals more people would notice that company managers are arrested. It was in the news that several managers in the plant in Greenville were arrested.

I was just trying to state some facts that people perhaps were unaware of. I know of a plant in Chicago that did a massive layoff and hired illegals. The U.S citizens didn't elect to leave their jobs it was decided for them. I don't know where you get your information but after every raid the news reports and shows the lines of U.S. citizens and authorized workers that want the jobs. You say that according to accounts that you've read it's not true that citizens show up for the jobs. That's the difference between me and you. You "read accounts" and I see the lines with my owns eyes.

Another problem with the raids is a loophole in the law. All illegals utilize another person's identity to obtain the job. They are saying that they are that person. You can't say that an illegal "tricked" an employer into hiring them and then charge the employer for hiring a person not authorized to work. Which one is it? The employer claims they were duped also and try to circumvent jail. You can't charge the illegal with identity theft and the plant managers with knowingly hiring the illegal. Now obviously they know they were hiring illegals but that is the defense they will use.

That's why the problem is attacked at both ends. Round up the illegals and prosecute the H.R managers.

I'm not blaming the illegals. They come from places that are terrible and offer no economic development but they don't come blindly. They know what they are doing. Keep reading.

I was just trying to respond to the comment that illegals do the jobs that American won't do. Americans were doing the jobs until greedy coporations fired them for the cheap labor. That is not right.

You speak of Unions as if they are the answer to all the problems in these plants. The Unions are the one's that are reporting the problems about the illegals because the illegals drive the wages down for everybody. Most unions are non negotiable you join when you are hired. The problem is that illegals will not speak up about the condition they work in. What good does a union do if you don't report a problem to it. Now if a plant if half and half so to speak a union will raise concerns with the proper authorities. This is because, if and it's a big if, a plant continues to hire U.S. citizens they pay them the reduced wage also. Then you have a U.S. working along side another and one is getting paid 15 and another 30 to do the same job. Once a plant is all illegal the unions don't have a issue because they get their dues regardless and they don't have any complaints. And don't think some of these Unions aren't in on it as well. It's a perfect world for them, they get their dues and don't have to represent anybody. Look up the swift company online. The company and the unions are being sued.

You mention something about a dishwasher. I was only speaking about illegals that displace a American worker by taking their factory job for less than half the price. I also don't like American jobs being shipped overseas. I have this crazy notion that maybe Americans should work be able to work in America. Don't believe the companies that say they can't find workers and therefore they hire illegals. They do it because they want to and it's just a matter of time before they are arrested as well.

How come we have become so sympathetic to the needs of someone who flouts our laws. Human smuggling rings make a billions of dollars a year. Look at the other side of illegal immigration. By the time that worker has arrived to that plant he/she was smuggled into the country. It may come as a news flash to some but that is against the law. It's against the law because their are so many ramifications for that one person to be smuggled in the country. If and I do mean if they make the journey and do not die they are subject to rape (women and children) if they don't pay. They are confined in houses with no electricy and their shoes are taken away from them so they can't leave. They are barely fed and treated like cargo until their debt is paid. Almost all the women are sexually assualted during their smuggling venture. Most of happening while they being detained in American drop houses. Family members left behind in the drop houses are held as collateral for their debt. They work in factories to send money back to the criminals so that their mother, sister, brother isn't killed. By the way again this all happens on American soil.

Then when the family member left as ransom is killed or raped the illegal relative in the U.S or from the other country wants the criminals they conspired with in the first place to be incarcerated. It becomes a total clusterfuck. Which one is it? It's okay to commit a criminal act to get here but then they don't want a criminal act committed on them or their family members that they willingly turned over for collaterol. It's a huge waste of government time and resources to investigate that. Me and my friend can't go and rob people and then I report to the police that he stole the all the money that we stole together. It doesn't work like that. Except if you are a illegal. I understand life is more important than money but I want you to understand all the things that happened before that person got to the plant.

Should federal officials ignore the crimes that happen on U.S. soil simply because the victims of that crime, "Just want a better life, job, etc." If that's the case lets try that approach with all crimes.

Many immigrants want a better life and they apply to come to this country and they work side by side with Americans for the same pay. That is why federal officials deport the illegals as well. If you take away the lure that brings the illegals here, and at the same time prosecute the managers, and put the criminal smugglers out of business, you attack the problem from all angles. To only do one of three things still leaves you with a problem.

In fact it has been working.
The number of hostage or deaths related from illegal smuggling has dropped. The El Paso times reports that border apprehensions fell 75% in the last few years. Remember that immigration raids started just a few years ago.

Immigration is a complicated system. And it is not always correct. I understand that the people need better lives but immigration officials are having to prosecute the people that are mistreating and killing the illegals. They don't get the luxury of not working a case because the illegal committed a crime too. If you take away the jobs that are luring them here then less of them will try to make the trip here and less of them will be killed along the way. It's sad to see them dead because some heartless smuggler killed them for $4000.

Anyway this is longer than I wanted it to be and I certainly have more to say but I just wanted to enlighten a few people that just repeat something that someone told them or what they saw on t.v.

And Rose you are right. Daisy check into the conditions of the Mexican immigration. They deport people that illegally come into their country and they don't handle them with kid gloves the way America does. Their illegals are held in deplorable conditions and get deported, no ifs ands or buts. That's a little hypocritical don't you think. We will deport who we want from our country but deport Mexicans from your country.

to the other anon person thanks for posting the link that shows job seekers going to the plants after the raids to seek employment. It always happens.

Daisy said...

Nowhere did I say "punish" the illegals. Again that is another deduction you incorrectly made.

Deporting people is usually regarded as punishment.

Now obviously they know they were hiring illegals but that is the defense they will use.

I agree with all you have said here; I've seen this happen myself. They know this person who doesn't speak English is NOT "Susan Allen" but that is the ID they have, and the employers laugh about it and accept it. Then they play dumb later--"they had a drivers license and it was valid!"

I was just trying to respond to the comment that illegals do the jobs that American won't do.

For pennies, they won't.

Once a plant is all illegal the unions don't have a issue because they get their dues regardless and they don't have any complaints.

I've heard this too; my point was more about the lack of Unions in the south in particular, which has had an effect on working conditions overall. Employers have a real "fuck you" attitude--they remind you periodically that "this is an work-at-will state"--a fancy term meaning they can fire you for any reason they please, including they just don't like you. And I know whereof I speak on THAT
score. Thus, they can fire a citizen for no reason, making it easier (and far cheaper) to replace them with the illegal. I think that is somewhat harder in the north and certainly, in a union job. Again, this is in my experience and observation. I have worked all my life; but only since moving south (21 years ago) did I work with illegals or people I suspected might be.

I also don't like American jobs being shipped overseas. I have this crazy notion that maybe Americans should work be able to work in America.

I had a job shipped overseas myself. (customer service) I will not lie to you, I have to restrain myself from unkind thoughts when I call ANY customer service number and get India. (MCI employees used to joke that the letters stood for "Must Credit India") As the 60 Minutes segment on customer service jobs moving to India said: the average CSR worker makes $3000-$5000 a year, and I just went through the roof.

If they continue shipping the jobs, or rigging it so they can operate on the cheap THERE (Maquiladoras) the workers WON'T EVEN HAVE TO COME HERE, and I find this a much more pressing concern.

How come we have become so sympathetic to the needs of someone who flouts our laws.

What about when management and BUSINESS OWNERS and CEOs, who flout laws? Can you name EVEN ONE millionaire who owns these businesses, who has even been prosecuted? I might ask why you are so sympathetic to rich business-owners and aren't providing a list of CEOs, business owners, landowners, etc who are collaborating. My problem is that you seemed so focused on the little guy, and that is not where it's at.

And if I may sound like a bleeding heart hippie for a second: Humanity should come before laws. Abortion was once against the law too; beating your wife or kids was legal as hell. I try to look at the reasons for behavior and judge whether the law or the person is more important.

How have we come to be so unsympathetic to poor people throughout the world?

You mention something about a dishwasher. I was only speaking about illegals that displace a American worker by taking their factory job for less than half the price.

There are untold thousands of nannies, maids, dishwashers who are also "taking American jobs" in one sense. But there is also the fact that MANY women could not afford a white/European legal nanny, but can afford one at half the price.

In a sense, the job of "illegal nanny" has been created by the economy; that child would probably go to regular day-care otherwise.

And who do you suppose works in those day care jobs now? It used to be older, grandmother-aged women, black women and all races of teenagers, and now illegals are being predominantly preferred for those jobs also, at least in the south. (I have worked in day care also.)

It becomes a total clusterfuck. Which one is it?

I have no doubts about any of this, and I highly recommend this article also.

So, how do you propose to deal? Round them up and send em back so they can start all over again?

If you know how bad the crossing is, why punish them further?

Me and my friend can't go and rob people and then I report to the police that he stole the all the money that we stole together. It doesn't work like that. Except if you are a illegal.

References? Links? A bit outlandish.

The illegals I have worked with have been terrified even of traffic violations, that they would be discovered and deported. A slight fender-bender thus turns into a hit-and-run, boom, and you have a "criminal" who is "on the run"--when in fact, they were just scared.

So, you will have to explain this one. Are you saying no one ever gets deported? Then WHAT are they so terrified of?

I've known illegals who ran off the property when the HEALTH INSPECTORS arrived, forgodsake. They are hardly this cocky lot you describe, unafraid of law enforcement.

Should federal officials ignore the crimes that happen on U.S. soil simply because the victims of that crime, "Just want a better life, job, etc." If that's the case lets try that approach with all crimes.

Facts and figures? You provide no links, as Rose also did not. How many "crimes" are we talking about, and how are you so certain illegals committed these?

And Rose you are right. Daisy check into the conditions of the Mexican immigration. They deport people that illegally come into their country and they don't handle them with kid gloves the way America does.

I could give a rats ass what Mexico, Argentina, Sweden, France or any other place does, that should not effect US policy. If you want us to be like Mexico, move there.

My bugaboo is when people in other countries like Canada or Australia, with pretty harsh immigration policies, criticize the US for being Draconian in OUR policy. That's when I personally go off--they have no right to say shit. (I know a professional person denied the right to legally enter Canada due to a 9-year-old drug bust that was pleaded out. Good god!!!)

to the other anon person thanks for posting the link that shows job seekers going to the plants after the raids to seek employment. It always happens.

And did they hire them? At minimum wage? Or wait for the next bus of illegals to arrive?

Rose said...

Daisy said: Yes, that's your actual reason, which apparently you are too dishonest to admit even to yourself. You just said the brown people were vanquished, and that white people own this land... didn't you JUST SAY THAT? You realize at the time of the wars you speak of, Indians and blacks had no civil rights, including the right to be considered victors and subsequent landowners? Thus, when you say "we won it"--you refer exclusively to white people.

Rose replies: You are the one who sees race and color. Where, oh racist one, did I say "the brown people were vanquished and white people own this land." Oh where, oh racist one?

I said: U.S CITIZENS OWN THIS LAND. Unlike you, I see beyond color of skin and see U.S. citizens of all colors and races. We have 304,000,000 U.S. citizens, who are yellow, black, in-between, brown and oh God forbid, even white.

I speak of sovereign nations. You are the one spewing racist hate. The United States of America, is not a race. United States citizens, are not a race. We are not immigrants. We are citizens, of a sovereign nation.

Unlike you, 80% of U.S. citizens, of all colors, races and ethnicities, want the illegals, out of our country. You are the only one, who sees race.

If you want to talk about history, let's go. Remember what the Native Indians did to the white Europeans, who they deemed, to be invaders? They at first, were peaceful with them, but then, started to feel threatened. They then, turned to slaughtering the white Europeans. That is exactly, what will happen here. You can run your Anti-American mouth, all you want. This is ours. We won it, with our blood. Which, be as Anti-American as you and your far left loons are, do not care about American blood that has been shed to win this land and YOUR FREEDOM.
You spew your hate for whites and America and U.S. citizens, yet you will remain living here, benefiting from all it's bounty.

The only reason, I stated, when my ancestors came here, is because you thought it relevant, which it is not.

We have U.S. citizens, who have just arrived here recently and have become naturalized U.S. citizens. They do not live in fear of being DEPORTED, because they have the right to be here.

Tell me, Anti-American racist one, what country, in the world can you go to, illegally, and march in that country's streets? Not only march, but demand, you better do what they say? NO WHERE. Yet, you think the U.S. citizens of this country, should open our doors to 6,000,000,000 people of the world.

It isn't going to happen. Like the Indians fought for this territory, we will do the same. We will fight to the death. I am sure, you will be hiding, while the bullets fly.

Yep, that is for sure. It has already been put into motion. Two years ago, when the idiot illegals, thought it a good idea to march in our streets, we started getting ready. You will see, nothing like it before. You and all your Anti-American buddies, will see, first hand, what it takes to win a country. It isn't, standing back, running your mouth.


When, ICE goes in and raids work sites, they punish both criminals at once. The punish the illegals, who came here on their own and they punish the employers. They are taking away the traitor employers slave labor, thus making them unable to do business.

You want to reward these corrupt employers, by giving them an endless supply of cheap slave labor from, not only Mexico and South America, but from the world.

As long as, you support the world sending their poor here, they will continue to do so.

We have 6,000,000,000 people in the world. We have approximately 38,000,000 ILLEGAL FOREIGN NATIONALS here. You want to tell them, "Okay, little ones, you can stay and have citizenship given to you for a reward, now we will let in your brothers, sisters, aunts, uncle and all of your other extremely distant relatives."

It will never stop. When you reward bad criminals behavior, you get more of the same.

When, you give the illegals AMNESTY, you are giving AMNESTY TO THE CORRUPT EMPLOYERS.

Illegal aliens are not the victims, we are. While we have to play by the rules, you support foreign illegals, who do not have to.

Daisy said...

Required viewing:

My seeds & your grandchildren

Daisy said...

Rose, are you too profoundly stupid to understand what FUCK OFF means? It means you are not welcome to continue your bullshit. Since you are doing the equivalent of coming into my house and screaming like a Bircher, I gather you won't mind if I start insulting you.

Where, oh racist one, did I say "the brown people were vanquished and white people own this land." Oh where, oh racist one?

As Martha might say: READING COMPREHENSION, it's a good thing.

I explained:

You realize at the time of the wars you speak of, Indians and blacks had no civil rights, including the right to be considered victors and subsequent landowners? Thus, when you say "we won it"--you refer exclusively to white people.

When you brag "we won the country"--from whom? Who is WE? Can you fucking explain your racist view of history? Only white men had rights in America at that time. So, your "WE" means WHITE PEOPLE by DEFAULT, you nit.

How could it mean OTHERWISE?

You DO realize that blacks and Indians were not permitted to own property? So, when you say "we won"--WHO FUCKING WON?

You simply will not answer the fucking question, you instead start BABBLING like a FUCKING JOHN BIRCH SOCIETY IDIOT.

I said: U.S CITIZENS OWN THIS LAND. Unlike you, I see beyond color of skin and see U.S. citizens of all colors and races.

Uh-huh. However, you said "we won this country"--I am talking about the TIME PERIOD IN WHICH IT WAS WON (duh!), which is what your entire moral argument of "who owns the USA"--is based on.

If one believes this country was not necessarily morally founded, but stolen, we simply can't get as worked up over "breaking the immigration laws"--since these thieves were the ones who WROTE those laws, to SUIT THEMSELVES.

Got that?

I speak of sovereign nations. You are the one spewing racist hate. The United States of America, is not a race.

Which of the founders was not a white man? Which of the original laws of the USA were NOT written by white people, for white people? You support those laws because you are white and those laws WERE WRITTEN to benefit you.

Where are your links, your references and your proof? As they say, like assholes--everyone has AN OPINION--so what? Can you back up your John Ford movie with FACTS?

I've waited for FACTS to support your nonsense, and I see you can provide NONE.

Therefore, I am telling you in no uncertain terms: GO AWAY PLEASE.

Remember what the Native Indians did to the white Europeans, who they deemed, to be invaders?

Gave them guides so they would not kill themselves; told them which North American plants, insects and snakes were poisonous; drew primitive maps on tree bark so they wouldn't keep getting lost in the woods; told them the names of rivers, caves, mountains and buttes and which were particularly dangerous; taught them how to make popcorn; told them the names of animals such as porcupines, otters and skunks that they had never seen before; taught them how to make canoes out of trees; stood by while they looted silver, gold, herbs, furs, precious stones, potatoes and tomatoes, etc.

PS: deemed to be invaders? HELLO! They WERE invaders.

United States citizens, are not a race. We are not immigrants. We are citizens, of a sovereign nation.

Oh say can yoo see, etc. Yes, hon, I've heard all that too.

More John Ford. Really, Rose, this is unnecessary, I've seen all of those movies hundreds of times...

They at first, were peaceful with them, but then, started to feel threatened.

Nah, go on!

I wonder why?

They then, turned to slaughtering the white Europeans.

Isn't that what you agree should have been done to them? How else could we have expanded from sea-to-shining-sea?

That is exactly, what will happen here.

Speaking honestly? I won't miss some people. I guess I will have to turn collaborator, like Nestor Makhno. Well, there are worse things, I suppose!

You can run your Anti-American mouth, all you want.

You bet I can! GYODB!

We will fight to the death. I am sure, you will be hiding, while the bullets fly.

See above. I will spy on your ass and report you to the Bolsheviks. You don't have a prayer!

This is ours. We won it, with our blood.

As a certain other individual used to say, there you go again.

Which, be as Anti-American as you and your far left loons are, do not care about American blood that has been shed to win this land and YOUR FREEDOM.

And I gave you my ancestry creds; I can say anything I want, thanks.

You spew your hate for whites and America and U.S. citizens, yet you will remain living here, benefiting from all it's bounty.

(((looks around at all my bounty, wonders where it is)))

I don't even have a laptop, babe. You must be talking to someone else.

Tell me, Anti-American racist one, what country, in the world can you go to, illegally, and march in that country's streets? Not only march, but demand, you better do what they say? NO WHERE.

And all those demonstrations I see from all over the world on CNN? Are they fake? Huh?

Are you now accusing news media of fabricating demonstrations in other countries?



Yet, you think the U.S. citizens of this country, should open our doors to 6,000,000,000 people of the world.

Quote please? Where did I say this?

You're a fucking liar.

Two years ago, when the idiot illegals, thought it a good idea to march in our streets, we started getting ready. You will see, nothing like it before. You and all your Anti-American buddies, will see, first hand, what it takes to win a country. It isn't, standing back, running your mouth.

Okay, that's it. Had enough.

Rose, if you continue this Bircher/John Ford bullshit, I will reprint your IP address HERE, as a separate post, complete with a handy-dandy map to your house, which I see is right here in upstate South Carolina. (It's called STATCOUNTER, love, and I see your exact geographic location...in fact, I can even see EXACTLY where you live, thanks to the wonders of GOOGLE EARTH! HI ROSE!)

If you continue your right wing horseshit here, I will let everyone see it. EVERYONE.

So bring it on. I'll let all those people who disagree with you, contact you directly and you can explain it to all of them in person.

So if you continue, these are the terms. And I have done it before to obnoxious motherfuckers like you. I will not put up with your John Bircher spam.

I'm nothing if not FAIR. :)

Bryce said...

you rock, D. you just plain rock da house.

Anonymous said...

Should federal officials ignore the crimes that happen on U.S. soil simply because the victims of that crime, "Just want a better life, job, etc." If that's the case lets try that approach with all crimes.

This comment was made referring the the crimes that are committed against the illegals on U.S soil when they attempt to cross. I am certain you infer what you want from everyone's comments. Since you got confused I will break it down even further.

Citizens of Mexico and other countries want to come to the U.S. If they can round up several thousand dollars they will pay smugglers to be smuggled into the U.S. Note that the application to citizenship is not several thousand dollars. Most people can't round up the money. So they become indebted to the smuggling ring. They will usually pay some small amount as down payment and then leave a actual person as the collaterol. That person is usually held in the U.S until the ring gets their money wired to them. If they don't get their money in time they kill the "left behind" person. Women and young girls are nothing but sex slaves to the smugglers. Nowhere did I say that the illegals were the ones committing the crimes. I said that crimes were being committed to them on U.S soil. When the relatives are killed or gang raped trust me illegal or not they will actually come to federal officials seeking help. Once they get to their location they may be a little gun shy but not when something happens to a loved one on our soil. They will come to federal officials to request admission for a period of time to work with agents to get their loved one back.

Right now the only people that can stay in this country after they illegally enter is a Cuban. My statement about robbing the banks is that they knowingly entered into a agreement with criminals and then are shocked when the criminals do other than the agreement. That is a total clusterfuck. Who are the illegals paying off their debts to? The vicious, dangerous, smuggling organizations. They are financed by the money that the illegals send back to them in return for the release of their loved one. Where do the illegals get their money? The jobs at factories, fast food restaurants, being a nannie, etc.

The whole problem is a cycle. That's why the problem is attacked by prosecuting the smuggling rings, prosecuting the company managers, and sorry if I hurt anyone feelings but sending the illegals back.

Yes they had a rough trip here but since currently the law doesn't say that if you had a rough trip you get to stay.

Taking away the lure that brings the illegals here results in less illegals trying to cross into the country by smugglers. Less illegals trying to cross results in less dead, raped, or maimed illegals on our soil. I guess I have to be clear again, COMMITTED BY THE SMUGGLERS, NOT THE ILLEGALS. Illegal smuggling has significantly dropped. I quoted the recent front page of the El Paso times as a example.

How do you handle the crimes that are committed BY THE SMUGGLERS NOT THE ALIENS on U.S soil? You certaintly don't ignore it because they are illegal because then the smuggling rings really thrive.

You have to go to the root of the problem and in the U.S it is the jobs. If you have jobs they will come. If there are no jobs for them they will not come. It may seem cold hearted but it is the truth. If they don't come the U.S. doesn't have to spend billions of dollars investigating crimes committed against them as they try to illegally enter the country. It's as simple as that. I know you are wondering what about the smuggling organizations. By taking away what the smuggling ring depends on, (the illegals need to find a job in the U.S) you are putting them out of their "business." You are also saving countless numbers of people lives. Maybe (please insert sarcastic voice here) the govt will use that money to find Bin Laden. Again that was a joke.

The other root of the problem is these peoples' countries. When do we hold these countries accountable for their people. When do we say stop throwing away your people as trash?

This is probably all I'm going to say on this issue. I have gathered from skimming through these posts that I have the experience to actually speak about all aspects of it. I don't speak as a free loving hippie that says everyone can stay. I don't speak as a racist person that considers these people invaders and just don't want more minorities in this country. I am none of that. I am a person that doesn't want to see another 14 year old girl that was gang raped by smugglers. Does anyone have a answer for that? A real answer to the problem? An answer to ALL aspects of the problem. Not just you don't like more minorites in your neighborhood. Not just you want them to work because they deserve it because their own countries suck. How do you stop them from being victimized on our soil when they are attempting to get these jobs? And trust that the numbers of victimized illegals tying up federal time is astronomical.

Right now worksite enforcements are the only thing that is working.

It seems like people aren't aware that there is a entirely different aspect of illegal immigration. I challenge people to step off their typical racists bandwagon and their, "they just want a better life bandwagon" and try to handle the 20 aliens die in the ARIZONA desert while being smuggled bandwagon.

Im sorry but from where I stand worksite raids are working. That doesn't make me a racist and that doesn't make me a hippie.

Rose said...

Daisy, I would love to meet you.

Come on over. We can have some tea.

Rose said...

Daisy. Better yet. I will come see you.

Until then.

Rachel said...

I'm here from Alas, A Blog. Thank you for posting on this story, Daisy, especially the link to the folks offering assistance.

Daisy said...

Rose, after my second marriage, my working policy is to studiously avoid ANYONE who makes blithe, random references to bullets flying. Call it the voice of experience. Thanks, but no thanks.
..

Anonymous, thank you for your polite, thorough clarification.
..

Rachel, you're welcome!
..

Bryce--*kiss*--right backatcha, love. And we are loving the DVDs of ENTOURAGE, so thanks so much for the recommendation!!! **blows more kisses**

Renee said...

What a troll infestation. Rose you seriously need to check your racism and your privilege. Not a single piece of land that you will step foot on in the US belongs to you. It is drenched in the blood of Aboriginal peoples and you have no more right to it than your ancestors did.

I do hope you will one day realize that borders are a social construction that exist for the sole purpose of creating difference where none exist. The idea that there is such a thing as an illegal human being on a planet that basis its survival on inter connectivity is ridiculous. Perhaps if you did not have such a vested interested in maintaining your ill gotten gains you could realize this.

@Daisy you are more generous than I, I would have hit the delete button on her over privileged racist ass.

Daisy said...

Renee--I try to do the free speech thing, but sometimes it backfires like this. (((sigh)))

I've noticed they scatter like cockroaches when you turn on the lights/threaten to out them, though. They like to remain anonymous and hide in the dark crevices.

I like to think their cowardly unwillingness to own up to their crap is a positive sign things are improving, however slowly.

Nicole said...

Daisy, when I first started reading Rose's comments, I was almost sick with fury. Then I read your comments, and I felt much better. Thank you for expressing the hidden-in-the-textbooks facts that all white people are immigrants, and we were welcome here (unlike the way we whites welcome the 'brown' people in every way, in every century) by the vast majority of the aboriginal peoples until we started acting like assholes. My family came here only a generation ago, but I will still take a white person's responsibility for our ancestors' big fat fuck-up, because if we don't, who the hell will?

I can't stand this right wing, privileged and blind white person bullshit. It makes me sad that people like Rose are so completely disillusioned, that they could possibly think immigrants are making an attempt to enter and ruin our country. If I was living without clean food and water, and watching my family members die in the streets, you can bet your ass I would come to another country for the promise of a few dollars to send home. Which, in my experience, is what most of them are doing. And they aren't happy. They're not happy being separated from their families, and they're not happy being treated like the shit on the bottom of the white man's shoe. (See: blacks from Africa, Natives from "America", and any other non-white culture.)

Why are people so blind to racism? I'll tell you why. Because they've never spent one fucking moment of their lives looking at real, true poverty. And I'm not talking homeless people on American streets. I'm talking kids dying from literal starvation or malnourishment, mothers dying of rape-caused AIDS and no one gives a shit, I'm talking about shacks built out of metal scraps and cow shit, about people with healthy cultures and respectful religions who now live with alcoholism and drug addiction in poverty-level reservations - and, Rose and all you other ingrates - NOT because they're lazy, NOT because they'd rather sit around boozing, NOT because they didn't try hard enough.

You know why Rose? Because of US. Because of white people. You have a whole hell of a lot of reckoning to do, and most of us white people are afraid. Afraid to look in the mirror and see that where we came from shed more blood than we could ever consciously handle. WE are the ones taking. Takers. Wasichu. Lakota word for white people, roughly meaning 'takers.' It's no coincidence. We take the natural resources, we tell those people their cultures and religions are wrong, and we destroy them. Then we show pictures of them on TV and feel a moment of pity before changing the channel.

If people stopped for one moment to realize just how disgusting this country's past is (and I love it, but I hate it too), a whole lot more would get done towards human rights.

Daisy, I apologize for going on, but I needed to say that to someone who agrees. There aren't many of us.

Thank you for standing up for truth - not just yourself. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Daisy said...

Nicole, thank you so much for your comment and compliments ... I worried I hadn't done so well and cussed too much. :)

(((kisses)))

Nicole said...

Daisy, are you kidding? Cussing was INVENTED for people like Rose and her colonial cronies. Besides getting a point across, it just FEELS good. :)

Follow up said...

Greenville poultry plant avoids federal charges

Columbia Farms to pay $1.5 million in undocumented-workers complaint

A Greenville poultry plant raided by immigration agents last year has agreed to change its employment practices to avoid federal charges of knowingly hiring undocumented workers, U.S. Attorney Walt Wilkins said Tuesday.

Under the agreement filed in U.S. District Court in Greenville, Columbia Farms Inc. also will pay the government $1.5 million to settle all criminal, civil or administrative claims that are pending or could be brought against the company as a result of a federal investigation.

The agreement, according to court records, resolves the investigation by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials and the Department of Justice regarding hiring practices at company facilities.

The enforcement investigation focused on allegations concerning the hiring and continued employment of unauthorized workers, court records show.

Wilkins said two Columbia Farms managers, as part of separate agreements, will participate for one year in a pre-trial diversion program supervised by the U.S. Probation Office and that could lead to federal charges being dismissed.

Wilkins said the agreement with Columbia Farms was filed in federal court just before jury selection was to begin in the criminal trial against the company and two of its managers.

The company, a subsidiary of North Carolina-based House of Raeford Farms Inc., denied any wrongdoing. The managers, identified in court records as Barry Cronic and Elaine Crump, pleaded not guilty to federal charges.

“We are pleased to have reached this settlement with the government,” said Robert C. Johnson, chief executive of Columbia Farms. “Today’s agreement acknowledges our full cooperation with the government’s investigation. We continue our commitment to doing business with the highest ethical standards and to complying with all federal and state employment laws and regulations.”

Bart Daniel, a Charleston attorney representing Cronic, said his client was pleased with the outcome.

Cronic, the complex manager in charge of operations at the Greenville plant, “is glad to be able to put this behind him and move on with his life,” Daniel said.