Sunday, November 6, 2011

If Men Had Hot Flashes

Of course, we know that hot flashes are caused by menopause. But what causes them? Why do they continue in some women and not in others? Why do some foods seem to precipitate them? Why do they occur in the dead of night?

As you may or may not know, if you look up "causes of hot flashes"--HOW they happen, the physiological mechanism--you repeatedly read the following:

The exact cause of hot flashes isn't known, but the signs and symptoms point to factors affecting the function of your body's thermostat — the hypothalamus. This area at the base of your brain regulates body temperature and other basic processes. The estrogen reduction you experience during menopause may disrupt hypothalamic function, leading to hot flashes.
Well, duh!

I could have written that. I know what the hypothalamus does. Most of us who wake up soaking wet, have figured out that it's something like that.

But what CAUSES the hypothalamus to go wacky? What is the exact way lowered-estrogen affects the hypothalamus? How and why does hormone-level impact it?

(((crickets)))

Wait, they can figure out how to make hard-on drugs for old guys, but they still don't know what causes hot flashes?????

Now, let me guess. Why do you suppose that is?

Are women, specifically OLDER women, just not that important? Why has some high-end study not been conducted? THIS IS 2011!

Wait, let me guess again. Someone tried to fund a study, and couldn't get funded. The pharmaceutical industry specialized in giving women cancer for decades, and that was judged good enough. It was only when various medical studies came out, definitively condemning Hormone Replacement Therapy as a medical risk, that many women started studying the issue for ourselves. After all, our mothers and grandmothers had used HRT, and we assumed we might also.

But my mother had breast cancer (when she was exactly my age) and my grandmother had fibrocystic breast disease (to such an extent that she had several large, but benign, breast cysts surgically removed). Hm, thought the baby-boomer women. Maybe they're right, and we shouldn't use astronomical levels of hormones? (And why didn't they study the safety of hormones, before dosing millions of women with them? Well, why would they?)

Okay, we thought, let's study the condition, and figure out what might help; first, the cause of hot flashes. If we can isolate the cause, we can figure out what natural or alternative treatments might be. At the very least, we can figure out catalysts and try to minimize their occurrence.

(((crickets)))

They. Don't. Know.

They put a man on the moon (man on the moooooon) -- so yes, it is reasonable to assume they might care about their moms' discomfort. Isn't it?

Ha!

I started menopause in 2006, and as regular readers know, I celebrated my postmenopausal self (defined as one year of not menstruating) by starting this blog in June of 2007. I still have hot flashes, although not the wretched slow-boil kind (known as "ember flashes"), which are mercifully behind me. Some women continue to have those, too, though. Why? And why are they notably less common in Asian women? Is this cultural, and possibly diet-related? A good way to determine this would be to study hot flashes in Asian women still living in Asian countries and eating Asian diets, vs Asian women who live in the USA and eat the usual American diet of processed foods, salty snacks and Taco Bell. Is there a difference in number of hot flashes? Or perhaps there is a genetic component.

And have they done this? I have no college degree, and yet, I can figure out this much.

(((crickets)))

Last night--BANG, in the middle of the night, I woke up and wiped off the sweat. I wondered if it was something I ate at a wedding reception, and then... was instantly peeved: I SHOULD KNOW THIS! I SHOULD KNOW WHAT FOODS TO AVOID, DAMMIT! WHERE IS MY GUIDE FOR THE MENOPAUSAL SWEATY WOMAN, WRITTEN BY SOME ASSOCIATION???!!! As the diabetic associations and the gluten-intolerance associations and the salt-free associations offer guides for their people.

No, they can't provide this, since they are clueless.

Women have lived on this planet as long as men, and yet--? Hot flashes are still described as a "mystery."

And so, in a nod to Gloria Steinem's witty piece titled "If Men Could Menstruate"--here is what occurred to me in the dead of night.

~*~

If Men Had Hot Flashes, there would be a Hot Flashes Association (HFA) with foods marked "HFA" (logo inside a macho male symbol), the way Cheerios have a little heart on them, for "heart healthy." Needless to say, they would KNOW which foods to eat and which not to eat, since extensive research and causality studies would exist.

If Men Had Hot Flashes, the Weather Channel would feature a daily Hot Flash Report, instructing men with maps of Hot Flash Regions for the day (since extensive research will show that weather is a factor). Men at work will ask each other (not in whispers, either), what the Hot Flash Report said that morning: "Did anyone catch the Hot Flash report? Whew, is it hot in here?" Raucous laughter and high-fives.

If Men Had Hot Flashes, there would be hot-flash drugs tomorrow morning. And they would be advertised in pricey, cutesy TV ads, just like Viagra, Cialis, etc. (Drugs with NO female equivalent, BTW, since older women's sexual enjoyment is as low-priority in this culture as the dilemma of hot flashes is.)

If Men Had Hot Flashes, when it's time to toast at the wedding and they flush unexpectedly, they will stand up boldly and proudly announce, "I AM HAVING A HOT FLASH!"--and all men in the room will applaud, laugh and cheer. It will be like announcing which team is going to the Orange Bowl. No shame, no apologies. No giggling by anybody when they turn beet-red. What is to apologize for? It's a sign of MANHOOD, isn't it? And therefore, it would be roundly celebrated.

If Men Had Hot Flashes, women would hear how we really don't understand the mysteries of the human body, the stages of life, the natural progression of age. We would hear jokes about "women menopause"--how women suddenly have to acquire sports cars and young hottie-boys in old age. Or is that just too funny to think about? Yes, you're right, never mind. (Let's skip this one, too sci-fi to be believable.)

If Men Had Hot Flashes, they would brag about how hot it was, how long it lasted, and who had the biggest. They would institute suitable competitions and a Champion thus installed: Hot Flash Champion. And everyone would know this man's name.

If Men Had Hot Flashes, they would probably wake up their wives at night and demand to be taken to the ER. Some Nice Guys(tm) would quietly and politely not wake the Missus, take a cold shower, and go back to sleep... only to be called MANGINA, WIMP, WUSS, PUSSY-WHIPPED and such, by his fellow males. Suitably chastened, Nice Guy(tm) will attempt to make a big fuss next time, like a proper man should.

If Men Had Hot Flashes, there would be literary works throughout history about Hot Flashes. Shakespeare's Henry V would have given a rousing speech, "We happy Few! We who burn on the pyre manhood!" (Males thrust weapons into the air and shout in response: AGGGHHH!!!!) TS Eliot would write great poems about his hot flashes, while Hemingway would turn it into an existential drama about hunting. And we would have to study all of this in school, and it would be nothing to take lightly or laugh about. THIS IS MANHOOD WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, people!

If Men Had Hot Flashes, John Wayne would have said: "I gotta hot flash, pilgrim, whats it to ya?" This famous manly comment, shrugging off the tortures of the damned, will make it into Bartlett's Quotations.

If Men Had Hot Flashes, well, I wouldn't even have to write this. ;)

35 comments:

sheila said...

:)
So true about men and hot flashes, lol. If it were something mega profitable they would find all all we need to know about hot flashes. Maybe they figure its just not something they can make money on.
Gotta go back now and read that link to the women and cancer thing.

JoJo said...

*standing ovation* Well said Daisy and very wryly written.

Starting in the early 1990's I became intolerant of heat and was hot all the time. My dr(s) said it was 'perimenopause' (I turned 40 in 2004, btw, so this started before I even turned 30). That seems to have stopped but I do get the occasional hot flash, right before my period, which is not getting less the older I get, but happening extremely frequently. I used to be on an every 28-33 day sked, a couple times I even skipped a month. Now it's every 22-25 days.

As for male hot flashes, my boyfriend is, as his best friend put it today in an email, "the human furnace". It doesn't take much warmth for him to start to cook and sweat profusely. I'm not sure if he has them in flash-form, but occasionally I will look over at him and he's got beads of sweat on his forehead and his hair is soaked. Maybe it does exist in some men?

But you are right. Pharma doesn't give a crap about women. I went to doctors, shrinks, counselors, etc etc to address my zero sex drive. All they said was, 'just do it'. They wouldn't consider addressing the root of it at all. I begged for in depth thyroid & hormone tests but was told all the blood tests were normal so they weren't going to investigate further. There was no drug that would help flagging libido and I even tried herbal supplements with no luck. Meanwhile the airwaves are thick w/ Viagra and Cialis commercials. So unfair.

Danny said...

Sure I'll bite:
Wait, they can figure out how to make hard-on drugs for old guys, but they still don't know what causes hot flashes?????

Isn't that the difference between stimulating something that is already there (blood flow) and trying to unravel why an organ malfunctions over time?

And while I can appreciate the anger Daisy I have to wonder how, despite the various ways in which men hurting and messed up, whenever someone posts the question of "If Men had..." its only the best possible outcomes that are mentioned. (Whose to say that if men had hot flashes, or mensturated for that matter, it wouldn't end up like prostate cancer is now. As in not brought up that much.)

DaisyDeadhead said...

Danny, but hot flashes are nearly universal, and prostate cancer is not.

I really don't care what the "reason" (excuse) is for no sex-enhancing Rxs for women; one can't help but think that Widspread Worship of the Almighty Erection has something to do with it. Most older women would be ecstatic if such drugs were offered to us. They could make record-profits, as Viagra did, the year it was introduced.

I really find it hard to believe that the intricate science of IVF and fertility procedures, are easier to produce than a simple sex-enhancing drug. Especially since herbs like Maca and amino acids like L-Arginine already exist (and both have notable sex-enhancing effects, just not on a pharmaceutical level), that could be used as a template/starting point.

Obviously, producing babies for the rich, is the medical priority, not the comfort of grandma.

Anonymous said...

If men got hot flushes they would be told to stop whining about it and just get over it and be a man.

quixote said...

Danny, actually, no, the two processes are not that different. Trying to figure out how to produce an erection in uncooperative tissue requires similar research of cause and effect and physiology. The erection problem was so intractable that they never did actually figure it out. Viagra was developed as a drug to dilate small blood vessels to alleviate symptoms of altitude sickness. Then they found that it had this odd side effect.... And the rest, as they say, is history.

My guess is that the difference is that if women had a sex-enhancing side effect from some new drug for, say, pimples, they might not even mention it. And if they did, doctors would probably say, "Oh, yes? Do you know, we had spaghetti at my house three times last month?"

In case you think that couldn't possibly be true, there's some evidence that Viagra's blood vessel dilation effect enhances pleasure in women, as anyone who knows anything about it would expect. Do you hear much about it? Me neither.

Anonymous said...

"My guess is that the difference is that if women had a sex-enhancing side effect from some new drug for, say, pimples, they might not even mention it. And if they did, doctors would probably say, "Oh, yes? Do you know, we had spaghetti at my house three times last month?"

Not true at all they tried using viagra and other drugs for sex-enhancing properties iv even seen spinal cord stimulation trialled for that.

It can also be argued that viagra is just as much about helping women than men. And if the only effect of viagra was increased pleasure for men it wouldn't of been sold as such.

Danny said...

Daisy:
I really don't care what the "reason" (excuse) is for no sex-enhancing Rxs for women; one can't help but think that Widspread Worship of the Almighty Erection has something to do with it. Most older women would be ecstatic if such drugs were offered to us. They could make record-profits, as Viagra did, the year it was introduced.
If it were all about the Almight Erection there would have been a birth control pill (if not pill some other method) for us ages ago if for no other reason than to introduce a way for men to have sex with little risk of pregnancy. There is already a method of injecting a compound into the vas defrens to render sperm unable to fertilize an egg (and undoing it literally is as simple as a second injection of a compound to neutralize the first).

Again just observing how "If men had..." scenarios being projected by women almost always end in sunshine and rainbows, totally ignoring the hurricane that my come our way.

I think Anonymous makes worthwhile points as well.

Anonymous said...

If men got hot flushes there would be no mention of it in any media and any attempt by any man to bring it up would be met with "zomg what about the menz?"

If men got hot flushes radical feminists would describe it as "the patriarchy enforcing its heat on women".

If men got hot flushes there would be constant jokes about it on sitcoms where hot flushes equated to incompetence.

Danny said...

Okay Anonymous I see where you're going with it (and I actually agree with you, to an extent) but come on its no need to get like that about it.

DaisyDeadhead said...

Danny: If it were all about the Almight Erection there would have been a birth control pill (if not pill some other method) for us ages ago if for no other reason than to introduce a way for men to have sex with little risk of pregnancy.

What does this have to do with erections? Are you saying erectile dysfunction in men is about a fear of pregnancy? Do you have any studies to back this up, Masters and Johnson or whatever? I have NEVER heard this. I've never even heard anyone SUGGEST it. Really?

My understanding of the birth control pill is that it is easier to stop ONE thing (ovum) than, you know, millions of things (sperm). One is lots easier to 'block' than the other.

The existing sexual-enhancement drugs (and how did I know that male commenters would all focus on THAT?) (sigh) could easily be tested on women, then prescribed to women. But they couldn't be marketed in such a gender-specific way, with the sexee bluesman songs and the wink-wink-nudge-nudge, if appealing to both sexes. VIAGRA was obviously chosen for its similarity to the word VIRILE, of course. And men, not women, are VIRILE.

Further, insurance companies have decided that 6 times a month (according to my endocrinologist) is what you get. Men, that is. Would insurance companies agree that women should get 6 orgasms a month? Unlikely, since many will not even cover birth control pills, but DO cover Viagra.

Danny: Again just observing how "If men had..." scenarios being projected by women almost always end in sunshine and rainbows, totally ignoring the hurricane that my come our way.

Sunshine and rainbows? I don't think I offered either one, did I?

I love how non-menopausal people are NSWATM are already saying "I get hot too!"--God forbid (old) women have ANY experience that can't be easily claimed by EVERYbody.

Next up: why labor pains are exaggerated, MEN actually have twice as many labor pains as women, did you know?

(((rolls eyes)))

leta said...

"Why won't they prescribe it to us, in that case?"

Because from testing only men recieve benefit from taking it.

"it has only been tested on men." It has been tested on women. you really think that they would give up selling pills to women? Drug companies value profit over everything. If they thought they could sell viagra they would.

"I can just imagine if men asked for their hard-on drugs and a doctor said: No, but I will give your wife the sex-drug and you will have to have sex with HER ONLY! No other women and no masturbation for you! LOL --I am sure that would go over like the proverbial lead zeppelin. ROFL, yall are hilarious! "

There is no treatment for decreased libido in women its unfortunate. But there have been cases where a mans impotence has caused a once loving marriage to end. If you think a woman being able to have sex with her husband again has no benefit for that woman well i don't know..

"You mean the way they continually whined and cried over not getting hard (see reference to Hemingway, who wrote a whole novel about it), until finally somebody made them a drug for it?"

there have been searches for drugs that increase libido in both men and women since the dawn of time. Viagra doesn't increase libido it just makes getting an erection easier.

So the case of a drug increasing libido is equally missing for both men and women.


"Next anonymous troll comment gets the trap door. NAME YOURSELVES, chickenshit little junior high boys."

I have not insulted you once ...

DaisyDeadhead said...

Leta: There is no treatment for decreased libido in women its unfortunate. But there have been cases where a mans impotence has caused a once loving marriage to end.

Why would impotence cause a marriage to end? Sounds like people are emphasizing intercourse, and that is the problem. There are many different things people can do sexually. Anybody can have sex with anybody else. Even TWO PEOPLE with NO PENISES AT ALL can have sex, did you know?

Really, not making this up! I've seen pictures!

Leta:If you think a woman being able to have sex with her husband again has no benefit for that woman well i don't know..

Why is a man's erection necessary for a woman to have sex with him? Are we talking, once again, about the primacy of heterosexual intercourse? Are you aware that some things bring women to orgasm that have nothing to do with penises? For instance: other women. Some of these women are called LESBIANS AND BISEXUALS.

There are also these things called vibrators and dildos, and most cost far less than a 6-month Viagra Rx.

Lets get back on the topic of WOMEN'S HOT FLASHES and MENOPAUSE (not flushes) and stop obsessing about SEX SEX SEX, okay boys?

And BTW, how long have you been in menopause, leta? If you are male (haha, I am being funny), how long has your partner been in menopause?

Or are you talking about something you don't know anything about?

leta said...

"Why would impotence cause a marriage to end? Sounds like people are emphasizing intercourse, and that is the problem. There are many different things people can do sexually. Anybody can have sex with anybody else. Even TWO PEOPLE with NO PENISES AT ALL can have sex, did you know? "

There are some women who really want to have intercourse with their husband and for them their life isn't full without it. Is it sad that this can cause a marriage break up ... yes it is. But for some women it is that important.

"Lets get back on the topic of WOMEN'S HOT FLASHES and MENOPAUSE (not flushes) and stop obsessing about SEX SEX SEX, okay boys?"

The topic is about if men were the ones who have hot flashes. It was you who brought up the topic of viagra.

So i fail to see how talking about men and viagra is wrong...

Danny said...

What does this have to do with erections? Are you saying erectile dysfunction in men is about a fear of pregnancy? Do you have any studies to back this up, Masters and Johnson or whatever? I have NEVER heard this. I've never even heard anyone SUGGEST it. Really?
As in if its all about the Erection then why are there more measures out there to let those Erections run free? Surely adding a way to cut the chance of pregnancy to almost 0 would go hand in hand with keeping them up longer and stronger if its all about the Erection.

Sunshine and rainbows? I don't think I offered either one, did I?
With the image you were painting that's pretty much all that was missing.

Thing is actually do agree with your main point, just not that fantasy world you paint about how good men have it.

DaisyDeadhead said...

Leta: There are some women who really want to have intercourse with their husband and for them their life isn't full without it.

And how many of these women have you actually talked to? How many broken marriages due to impotence have you actually witnessed? In my observation, hard penises are far more important to men, than they are to women. And remember: intercourse is not the only form of sex. (And what's wrong with dildoes?)

Or are we talking about Lady Chatterley, Penthouse Forum or some other women invented by a man?

Leta: Is it sad that this can cause a marriage break up ... yes it is. But for some women it is that important.

People who have been married a long time, usually understand "for better and for worse" and that is code for what you describe.

How long have YOU been married? Is this your experience? Do you think your loving wife would divorce you for this reason?

Leta: The topic is about if men were the ones who have hot flashes. It was you who brought up the topic of viagra.

So i fail to see how talking about men and viagra is wrong...


Reading comprehension, hon. Not "wrong" just not the topic, although men always have to bring it back to PENISES and THEMSELVES, don't they?

Thanks for being such a great example, though. Men like you bring more women to feminism all the time. Keep up the good work!

DaisyDeadhead said...

Danny: Surely adding a way to cut the chance of pregnancy to almost 0 would go hand in hand with keeping them up longer and stronger if its all about the Erection

Not sure I understand you here. I don't think most men really care about pregnancy at all. Just going on what I have seen and... experienced personally.

Why did they have to institute all these laws to track men down, to get them to pay for child support? Why would they NOT want to do that, if pregnancy is important to them? See, I don't think most men think children = sex, although that fact has been drilled into women's heads, and for good (and obvious) reasons.

Danny said...

Sorry for the derail Daisy:
Not sure I understand you here. I don't think most men really care about pregnancy at all. Just going on what I have seen and... experienced personally.

Why did they have to institute all these laws to track men down, to get them to pay for child support? Why would they NOT want to do that, if pregnancy is important to them? See, I don't think most men think children = sex, although that fact has been drilled into women's heads, and for good (and obvious) reasons.

Okay supposedly men are just looking for responsibility free and care free sex (or at least that what is said about men who want "choice for men"). The ability to just have sex with lots and lots of women and not worry about getting them pregnant and not worry about getting chased down to pay child support. I'm sure you've heard this before.

Wouldn't a method of birth control that is almost 100% effective be the ultimate way to avoid all of that for such men?

That's what I think the beauty of it more birth control options for men lies. For the responsible ones its another way to continue contraception. For the supposed "choice for men" crowd its the ultimate trump card for child free sex.

But now that you mention those laws to track down men and get them to pay child support I wonder. Given how hard it is to set a man free from child support orders on a child that has been proven not to be his biological child I wonder how all those collection agencies would act once men started getting hip to something like RISUG....

DaisyDeadhead said...

Danny, if men used birth control, that would be fabulous. I am not objecting in the least. I just don't know if most men THINK that way. If anything, they seem to think birth control issues are "not their job"... now, after they get chased down for child support, they might acquire the incentive to use it, and that makes sense.

Do you think this would be popular outside of men in long-term relationships who are sharing the responsibility of BC with their partners? It would be great if that happened.

DaisyDeadhead said...

Apologies for comments being eaten by spam filters, it isn't me. It's eating mine too!

Here is my comment to anon, which was eaten:

Anon: It can also be argued that viagra is just as much about helping women than men. And if the only effect of viagra was increased pleasure for men it wouldn't of been sold as such.

Why won't they prescribe it to us, in that case? Answer: it has only been tested on men. How can it be for women? Oh, I see, you mean heterosexual women having sex with men, and THAT is how we are supposed to get off.

I can just imagine if men asked for their hard-on drugs and a doctor said: No, but I will give your wife the sex-drug and you will have to have sex with HER ONLY! No other women and no masturbation for you! LOL --I am sure that would go over like the proverbial lead zeppelin. ROFL, yall are hilarious!

And Danny, a quote to remember:

Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. --Napoleon Bonaparte

I allowed anon to continue, since he is damned funny... especially while showing such amazing arrogance and ignorance that he writes "flushes" instead of "flashes"--LOL! We can see how learned he is on the topic and cannot even bother to read the title of my post correctly, much less the whole thing.

Anon: If men got hot flushes radical feminists would describe it as "the patriarchy enforcing its heat on women".

Flashes, hon, not flushes. Points off for cowardly anonymity and bad spelling.

Anon: If men got hot flushes they would be told to stop whining about it and just get over it and be a man.

You mean the way they continually whined and cried over not getting hard (see reference to Hemingway, who wrote a whole novel about it), until finally somebody made them a drug for it?

Next anonymous troll comment gets the trap door. NAME YOURSELVES, chickenshit little junior high boys.

~*~

Leta, thank you for letting me know who you are. I have a (local) stalker, so anon comments are not particularly welcome at present. At the same time, not ready to outlaw ALL of them, since some people have good reasons for anonymity.

Gregg Jocoy said...

*Slips into his consigliere outfit and leans against the door jam*

Anybody givin' youse a hard time Daisy?

leta said...

"Reading comprehension, hon. Not "wrong" just not the topic, although men always have to bring it back to PENISES and THEMSELVES, don't they?

Thanks for being such a great example, though. Men like you bring more women to feminism all the time. Keep up the good work!"

Sorry hun but seriously you brought up penis and you brought up men. So it wasn't me that made it about penis but you...


"Or are we talking about Lady Chatterley, Penthouse Forum or some other women invented by a man?"

Umm considering i would be breaking confidentiality if i told you....


"People who have been married a long time, usually understand "for better and for worse" and that is code for what you describe."

Sometimes marriages aren't like that the world isn't perfect.


"Thanks for being such a great example, though. Men like you bring more women to feminism all the time. Keep up the good work!"

Yeah is this meant to make me angry or something? I am arguing in good faith... If my arguments made in good faith makes you think
I am some hateful person i don't know what to say. I repeat i haven't insulted you at all.

DaisyDeadhead said...

Yall are in trouble now, my consigliere is here. (HI GREGG!)

Leta, I remember you from Feminist Critics. That was you, right?

If you are going to continue discussing penises, could you please answer the multiple questions I asked? "Good faith" means replying to me. How long have you been married? And do you think your wife would dump you for developing erectile dysfunction? If not, why do you think other women are so quick to do so?

Have you been close to a woman (besides your mother) who is in menopause? What issues did you discuss about your sexual relationship in light of her physiological changes?

Cost of admission is answering these questions. I like to know who I am talking to and if they are talking out of their ass or not.

For instance, my consigliere's wife and I are friends, so if he wants to discuss the subject, I know he has some direct experience. Do you?

stubbles said...

Daisy,

I came here from Feministe. (Your comment about men lacking a sense of humor made me giggle. What else can be expected from the gender who made the 3 Stooges popular, eh?)

I'm curious, can you offer a citation or a link about this?:

"herbs like Maca and amino acids like L-Arginine already exist (and both have notable sex-enhancing effects, just not on a pharmaceutical level)"

Thanks.

Suz88 said...

"Most older women would be ecstatic if such drugs were offered to us. They could make record-profits, as Viagra did, the year it was introduced. "

The idea that men hate women more than they love money is not believable. If record-profits could be made, they would be made. Even less credible is the idea that men would be reluctant to develop a drug that would make women eager to have sex.

stubbles said...

(I wanted to clarify that I'm not asking for a citation in a bitchy way. I'm interested in trying this out.)

"The idea that men hate women more than they love money is not believable."

I disagree. Rather, part of men's hatred of women is the absolute disinterest society has in whether women enjoy sex coupled with actively preventing women from enjoying it.

Even though women know that there could be a lot of money to be made, there's no way in hell such a research project could get funded.

leta said...

"If not, why do you think other women are so quick to do so?"

Who said i think women would be quick to do that?
It was years before she left him.

"Cost of admission is answering these questions. I like to know who I am talking to and if they are talking out of their ass or not."

For someone who makes so many assumptions about men your demands for direct experience is quite silly. If you don't want people to disagree with you don't open comments. If all you have in response is demands because you can't argue your own position this conversation is over.

DaisyDeadhead said...

Suz, check out what I said upthread about insurance. I don't know if record profits could be made if the insurance won't cover it, as Viagra is covered. Right now, birth control isn't even covered, and its as crucial to women's enjoyment of sex as anything else. If they won't cover BC, will they cover sex-enhancement drugs for women? I refer to misogyny that is intrinsic to the medical establishment... how else to account for BC not being covered when Viagra is?

Stubbles, there are tons of webpages about Maca, used as an aphrodisiac in the Amazon: Maca health benefits. I mention it because I notice a definite (positive!) difference when I take it myself. Whatever is "in" it, couldn't we make MORE of it? :)

And like quixote was saying about Viagra, L-Arginine was initially used as something else entirely: a body-building supplement. They noticed it this really great side effect! A local fertility doctor gives it to women before IVF. I have noticed great results.
In fact, L-Arginine is the main ingredient in most of the "natural" sex-enhancers like Enzyte.

L-Arginine by itself (not in a multi-ingredient supplement) is cheap, but Maca is expensive. Maca is more effective, but taking the two together can yield some excellent results.

DaisyDeadhead said...

Leta: For someone who makes so many assumptions about men your demands for direct experience is quite silly. If you don't want people to disagree with you don't open comments. If all you have in response is demands because you can't argue your own position this conversation is over.

Don't let the doorknob hit you in the ass. Toodles, as Gidget used to say.

Mama Moretti said...

Great post, d. you had me at Henry the Fifth.

Danny said...

Danny, if men used birth control, that would be fabulous. I am not objecting in the least. I just don't know if most men THINK that way. If anything, they seem to think birth control issues are "not their job"... now, after they get chased down for child support, they might acquire the incentive to use it, and that makes sense.
I think so if for no other reason it would as I say give the responsible ones a new option and give the supposed lazy ones an option to prevent that stuff from happening.

Do you think this would be popular outside of men in long-term relationships who are sharing the responsibility of BC with their partners? It would be great if that happened.
Yes I do. It gives us more options. And for women that snidely comment that they wouldn't trust a man that said he was using BC fine, those women still have their own BC options or can just say no to the sex in question.

(And I still stand by my original observation of how women are so quick to declare how everything would be oh so great in hypothetical "If Men Had..." scenarios.)

SC Boy said...

(aka SC Troll for the moment.)

Some men do menstruate. We don't get parties and fanfare.

I understand how generalities work and all that, but still...I just got over a mean period, and nobody gave me nothing.

And as quixote mentioned, women have taken Viagra. There's anecdotes from women in The Whole Lesbian Sex Book (Felice Newman, Cleis Press), about how they took Viagra and it worked for them. Of course, it probably wasn't their own prescription...unless they found a doctor willing to prescribe it for off-label use.

Joan Kelly said...

In case it's helpful, not as a counter AT ALL to your assertions about the utter lack of information out there, giving a shit about women in the medical industry (and other industries) - I got two books that have been helpful to me with menopause-related info so far, written by the same (male, sorry to say, but better than nothing) doctor - "What Your Doctor May NOT Tell You About Menopause" and "What Your Doctor May NOT Tell You About Pre-menopause" (or perimenopause, whatever's the right term) - both by Dr. John Lee.

He writes about hot flashes - doesn't have an exact scientific cause-effect theory, but believes lack of progesterone production is what causes a LOT of the symptoms associated with menopause, including hot flashes. I've been using a progesterone cream (progesterone replacement works best absorbed through the skin, and ONLY natural progesterone, not the synthetics in birth control pills, etc. - progestin is NOT the same and does not have the same benefits, and in fact contributes to some of the bad effects of menopause), and had a lot of benefit for what were, for many months, daily horrible migraines (estrogen-dominance related), plus I was starting to get hot flashes once in a while (I'm 43 so still in pre-menopause, but the body is changing for damn sure) and it's seemed to help with that too.

Anyway, just wanted to say - even women doctors/physician assistants, who do obviously care about me and other patients, have tried to get me to take essentially HRT, by going on the pill, when I asked if I could be tested for hormone levels to see if I'm going into pre-menopause or early actual menopause (I'm a hypochondriac, I should mention - one heat wave and me getting over-heated because of it and in my head it's OH NO, HOT FLASHES HAVE COME TO STAY!, ha). I tried the birth control pills just in case, and they made me batshit crazy(er), so I quit. I tried the lowest dosage of any synthetic estrogen pill offered, and none of it was tolerable.

But this progesterone cream has done wonders. I highly recommend the books. Even if they don't end up being applicable to all women (and he clearly says that his ideas and methods don't apply 100% across the board, just that he believes fake estrogen is WAY over-prescribed (HRT), and harmful, and that lack of progesterone has been completely ignored as a possible cause for a lot of difficulties, and his experience is that natural progesterone replacement is way more helpful than synthetic estrogen replacement, though some women may still need some estrogen. He just recommends natural estrogen, not synthetic, if you can get it.

The fucked up part is that you can get all the synthetic poisons you want, but to get "bio-identicals" of estrogen or higher doses of progesterone if the cream stops being enough concentrated hormone for you, you have to pay through the nose. Which yeah, older women, so notorious for having wads of cash lying around to pay for not-covered-by-insurance things we need for our health.

Please forgive the long-ass comment, just was interested in this thread and wanted to say I *had* seen a little bit of helpful info out there, about menopause and perimenopause. I know someone who went the route this doctor recommends (and is fortunate enough to be able to afford to see the one doctor she knows of who will prescribe bio-identicals, which are not insurance covered RX's, as mentioned), and it's made a world of difference for her. I hope to win the lottery so I can afford the same thing. Though that means I'd have to start actually playing the lottery...

Thanks for this post, regardless, Daisy.

Lindsay said...

This is awesome! You had something that made me laugh aloud in almost every paragraph.

(I'm a long way from menopause, so I'm not laughing out of shared experience ... just your witty writing).

My favorite has to be the St. Crispin's Day speech.

Anonymous said...

"Pharma doesn't give a crap about women".

No doubt. Nor about men. As for every other business in existence, the motivation for pharmaceutical innovation is reaping a profit, not charity. For example, would anyone take antidepressants, knowing the extent of risk - http://goo.gl/7hda ?

By the logic of your educated colleagues (discredited here - http://goo.gl/jvbpJ ) hot flashes are solely a social construct. If you want to contribute to evidence based research - neuroscience, especially neurophysiology - that have a potential of alleviating your discomfort, you might consider petitioning for diverting public funds from Gender Studies (in large part fraudulent and wasteful, as evidenced here - http://goo.gl/vuHw5 ) to financing grants in animal research on neuromodulation and neuromodulator metabolism. However, such research routinely requires procedures that Animal Rights activists classify as institutional cruelty to animals. One has to ask oneself whether in this instance the ends justify the means.

Viagra is an artificial pharmacostimulant affecting physiological arousal, regardless of gender. However, there is a lot more to functions of nitric oxide in the human body than mediating a penile/clitoral erection.

So... despite various exclamations of "??????" "(((crickets)))" & "This is 2011!" there are better for explanations for the current state of affairs than animosity between genders.