I have always "let a lot of things go"--since you know, my Deity announced a long time ago, that we should forgive 70 x 7. [1]
An argument continues. I have decided we need to air it here, since we are basically talking about a difference in radical approach.
Lisa writes:
If I could go the entire rest of my life without hearing anyone say “I didn’t intend to say anything racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic/ableist” as if it means anything, it will still be too soon.If you don't care, nothing will ever change, and no one will learn a damned thing. Some people, you know, just aren't as smart as others and have not had the educations that others have had... bottom line.
I don’t care. [2]
Someone says something transphobic to me or where I can hear it, I don’t care if they didn’t mean to hurt me, they did hurt me. I have the right to say “Hey, that thing you said was transphobic.” It’s just like if someone accidentally steps on my foot - I can still say “Hey, you stepped on my foot!” and whoever stepped on my foot will probably apologize and move on, and not start an argument about how I was standing in their way or how they never hurt people on purpose.Bad analogy; it isn't as clear as that. What if the person says something and doesn't understand WHY it was transphobic? Can't we clarify and ask WHY? Isn't that a desire not to do further harm and integrate the message so that it never happens again?
Why is all discussion ruled out?
See, speaking of ageism, or rather, not speaking of it, since you carefully left it out of your list of oppressions (so should I assume the worst from this omission and claim ageism is therefore still acceptable to you?)--some of us come from older leftist/radical traditions in which all political questions were silenced by revolutionary cadre; to ask questions was to be seen as uncommitted to the cause, not because we needed to know the answer.
You sound like you think they did the right thing shutting us up, yes?
And you can say “Well, I didn’t mean to say anything transphobic” and I’ll say “I don’t care, you said it.” and suddenly the conversation becomes a matter of what you were thinking when you said it,Well, yeah. If you are assigning meanings and INTENTIONS a person doesn't have, it becomes necessary to CLARIFY that NO you are NOT a proponent of mass genocide, or whatever outrageous charges are currently being levied.
And isn't it crucial to learn to express sentiments differently, rather than using offensive language?
How can one learn if one doesn't discuss these things?
(I still don't understand, for instance, and no, I am not allowed to ask, either.)
If some white person says "Obama is articulate!"--we need to explain that no, WHAT YOU SAID was not the insult (they in fact intended it as a compliment), but the way that particular word has been used in the culture, and what it conveys to African-Americans, is something quite different.
If that person doesn't understand that, I think it is perfectly reasonable to discuss it, or they will never learn and they will keep right on saying it.
Yes, I fully realize there are people VERY tired of explaining that, and I get that. But simply WANTING to understand, is not wrong or bad.
It is the heart of all revolutionary change.
and not what you said, and what you were thinking is irrelevant.If you think certain people's thoughts are irrelevant while other people's thoughts are valid, this explains plenty. I think everyone's thought are valid. Whether I want to argue with them (say, at Feminist Critics, where incidentally, I have argued at length) is another matter. But what they think DOES matter and IS NOT irrelevant; they have considerable influence, particularly if their thoughts reflect the majority.
I don’t care if you’re transphobic and hate all trans people or if you just slipped up, I want you to own what you said, and not tell me about your inner life.(This is a reference to my post about my father and how difficult it has been to overcome certain influences.)
Lisa, we probably won't "own it" to your specifications, so you may always be angry at people who don't use the politically-correct terminology. If I was this picky, here in the hyper-conservative upstate of South Carolina, I wouldn't have a single friend left. This sounds like someone who lives in a liberal area, who has the luxury of never having to work with the opposition.
I do care about people's inner lives, and what they are thinking. Yes, even the "bad people"--I don't think lasting change happens any other way.
Again, this is undoubtedly a big difference between us.
And I realize that your approach is perfectly respectable, ideologically. Malcolm X agreed with you. But that doesn't make you the expert on politically-correct behavior, any more than I am.
I am totally unable to simply cut loose a longstanding friend, or relative, or lover, or whoever, just because they used the wrong language or said something stupid. Certainly, I would want to hear what that loved-one has to say for themselves.
When a stranger steps on my foot, it's very, very different than when a FRIEND does. I would never regard these two events as morally equivalent. If you do, that also explains the differences between us.
And yes, I also believe that the inner life of OTHER oppressed people, even if you regard it as unimportant, is important. A stupid or offensive remark from a comrade, or another oppressed person, is not the same as the same comment from one who intends to do harm or who is not on the same side.
--
[1] Matthew 18: 21-22. Offhand cultural note: Even mentioning that one believes in the traditions of various Deities/Churches, such as offering to do PENANCE for an offense, is not permitted in some circles... did you know that? I sure didn't!
I'm sure this vast cultural abyss has nothing to do with being old and working-class (instead of young, trendy, upper middle-class, bright-eyed, well-educated and properly enlightened), so don't even go there!
[2] Should I point out that you missed "classist" and "ageist" in your litany?
Actually, I'm pretty used to that. Some forms of oppression rate a mention, and some are merely part of the air we breathe and don't even matter. The fact is, though, I have overlooked a great deal more classism and ageism than you can imagine. And what do I get for assuming charity and giving friends the benefit of the doubt? I get told that my feelings, my inner life, doesn't matter.
Well, it's nice to learn that NOW, I guess. It is a lesson I won't soon forget.
